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Tele Vue 13mm Ethos

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#26 Miguel Rui Lopes

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 06:52 AM

How do you think other eyepiece makers will respond to this? Cheaper prices or improved designs?

#27 jouster

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 07:01 AM

$595

#28 Stefan Rostyne

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 07:56 AM

How do you think other eyepiece makers will respond to this? Cheaper prices or improved designs?



I think : less weight by an improved design and the use of new materials, eventually meaning cheaper prices.

What keeps me thinking is how they realise such a big eyepiece with such a light weight.

That also struck me when holding Sixela's TMB Paragon 40 mm, it is actually a lightweight for it's size, yet it is very good corrected. I noticed the same phenomenon on the new Baader Hyperion Aspherics.

In the Baader aspherics thread, someone finaly wrote a most interesting hypothesis : are nowadays eyepiece makers swithing over to aspheric high quality plastic elements in their eyepieces????

We shouldn't be to overly worried about that : plastic compound aspheric lenses are a long time succes in the optical industry. Think professional camera lenses and your everyday ordinary glasses.

With new discovered glass species realising ever higher refractory indexes and ever lower dispersion, one thing they don't realise, is loosing weight. Newer glass species tend to be growing in specific density, controversially.

So? High quality plastics look like the only possibility.

If that is what is happening inside the TV Ethos, prices might be seriously lower than some of the more 'exotic' wild amounts we see in this thread.

#29 doctordub

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 08:17 AM

There goes my savings account!

#30 ned_l

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 08:33 AM

Thanks for the write up, it sounds awesome. I was just starting to save up for a 13 mm T6 Nagler when the NEAF report about the Ethos came in. Luckily, I have 4 more months to save up now!

#31 ylin

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 10:04 AM

FL 13mm with 100 degrees cover almost same field of a 25mm Plossl. A medium power eye piece yet cover a FOV of low power EP. This is amazing !

If the price can be under 500, this may be the first and only premium EP for me.

#32 ckwastro

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 11:19 AM

Daniel, thanks for the great review, and giving us yet another reason to lighten our wallets!! :grin:

I'd guess the price would be right around $520 given that the f/l is only 13mm, but allowing for the R & D on the design and newer glass costs.

#33 Darren Bly

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 12:19 PM

The 13mm Ethos has almost the same field as the 17mm t4 with 30% more magnification.

#34 Tom Karpf

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 12:27 PM

So? High quality plastics look like the only possibility.


There's at least one other possibility: large air gaps in the body of the eyepiece.

#35 Cosmosphil

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 01:57 PM

Daniel,
Now for an interesting question. As I know you are a monster fan of the Pentax XWs would the Ethos push closer to matching or even beating the axial performance?
If you had, oh say a 14XW would it be a reasonable move to the 13 Ethos assume the wallet could bear the transaction? :grin: Hypothetically.... :grin:

#36 Alan K

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 02:05 PM

Or perhaps a pair of 14XW's in a binoviewer.....

#37 George N

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 03:03 PM

There goes my savings account!


...and then some! The 13mm is only the first of a new series of how many? four, five, Ethos eyepieces?

#38 Starman1

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 03:05 PM

Are you sure you're not thinking of another eyepiece series. The Radians came out quite a bit later than 93'. Maybe you meant 2003. :question:

Too many margaritas. My wife reminded me they were Königs and Meade UWAs that bit the big one in '93 (she said I harped about it for years. Moi?).
I got my first Radian when I owned an 8" SCT, which was after the fire--late '90s, I guess.
I knew I should've kept a list with dates.
It's a lot simpler now. My next eyepiece hasn't been released yet. ;)
I'm still plowing through eyepieces, though. I just sold three at RTMC and bought another one.
Hello, my name is Don, and I'm an ocularholic. :foreheadslap: :grin:

#39 Jim Rosenstock

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 05:45 PM

There goes my savings account!


...and then some! The 13mm is only the first of a new series of how many? four, five, Ethos eyepieces?


Errr....we don't know!!

We don't know if there will be other focal lengths offered, and if so, what they'll be.

We don't know what the price of the initial Ethos will be.

We don't know the optical design of the Ethos.

All that exist right now are five prototypes, which have been tested extensively on an indoor sign at NEAF, and under dark night skies at the (mostly clouded, I'm told :() TSP.

Perhaps the excitement is a bit premature?

Don't get me wrong; I'm personally certain that Uncle Al will eventually deliver another great product--he always has. But I'm cynical about ANY product that gets too much promotion before it even exists!

I wish Al Nagler had not announced this product until he actually had some available for purchase. [Likewise, BTW, for the single-prototype Obsession ultralight unveiled at TSP.]

Just my $.02

Clear skies,

Jim

#40 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 06:27 PM

Perhaps the excitement is a bit premature?


Possible of course, but TeleVue has very few product flops. The prototypes have likely seen extensive and rigorous in-house testing before being publicly shown.

#41 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 06:55 PM

Daniel,
Now for an interesting question. As I know you are a monster fan of the Pentax XWs would the Ethos push closer to matching or even beating the axial performance?
If you had, oh say a 14XW would it be a reasonable move to the 13 Ethos assume the wallet could bear the transaction? :grin: Hypothetically.... :grin:


I knew this question would finally come about. That will be the final test however I can not comment at this point, but I can already tell it's going to be one of the greatest comparisons for me and I'm looking forward to it. :grin: :grin:

#42 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 07:00 PM

Hi Jim,

I'm speaking only for myself, but if I was going to introduce an eyepiece as a business man, I would only make a few units for people to view with and test and get an idea of how intersted others are before I shell out the big bucks to have a bunch made. That's smart business IMO. One would be pretty foolish to invest in a ton of eyepieces and find out no one cares about buying them. :cool:

#43 imjeffp

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 09:17 PM

All that exist right now are five prototypes, which have been tested extensively on an indoor sign at NEAF, and under dark night skies at the (mostly clouded, I'm told ) TSP.

Perhaps the excitement is a bit premature?


I got to look through the Ethos at TSP, and swap it back & forth with my 13mmT6. Believe the hype.

I don't think the pricing will be a cost plus decision, rather I expect there'll be more demand--supply pricing. TV will be able to build a nice cushion and finance a lot of new projects if they sell as many as they can make at a premium price. I don't think it'll be more than $1,000, but more than $620 won't surprise me.

#44 Rob S

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:43 AM

If it's anywhere remotely near US$500 i'm in, even with my 3/4 dollars. I've not been in the game long enough to have seen any other TV EP release - does anyone have a realistic idea how many are likely to be released in the first run? Are we talking 100, or more like 1000 shipping to dealers in one hit?

I reckon they could charge US$1000 and still sell boat loads of them, and it might even at the end of the day be 'worth' the price to a lot people - but not to me.

Rob.

#45 Jim Rosenstock

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 08:58 AM

Believe the hype.

No, thank you. Against my religion.

#46 ckwastro

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 10:36 AM

I don't think the pricing will be a cost plus decision, rather I expect there'll be more demand--supply pricing. TV will be able to build a nice cushion and finance a lot of new projects if they sell as many as they can make at a premium price. I don't think it'll be more than $1,000, but more than $620 won't surprise me.


I suppose the question will be at what point will the market determine diminishing returns? So far, Al has not priced himself out of the market with his other product lines, and even though we pay more for TeleVue's equipment, it delivers the performance, and is still within reach of a good chunk of the amateur market.

Even though the Ethos has an unprecedented AFOV and perhaps a little better correction and some new (cooler) glass, I have a hard time seeing this line of EP's *starting* at or beyond the $620 mark of the 31mm Nagler and maintaining a viable market. The Nagler line is still affordable and has been the performance king of wide-fields for a long time. If the Ethos line starts higher than the most expensive Nagler, the target market is going to shrink rapidly IMHO.

#47 Bob Clift

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 12:25 PM

$199. Please please please please please please please $199.

#48 Jim Rosenstock

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:45 PM

$199. Please please please please please please please $199.


That will probably make an acceptable down payment. :shocked:

#49 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 09:34 AM

I don't think the pricing will be a cost plus decision, rather I expect there'll be more demand--supply pricing. TV will be able to build a nice cushion and finance a lot of new projects if they sell as many as they can make at a premium price. I don't think it'll be more than $1,000, but more than $620 won't surprise me.


Interesting strategy, but I don't think there is much precedent. TeleVue eyepiece prices tend to be extremely stable over the years. There are occasional sales such as NEAF blems, and some special offers. NEAF is annual, the others are sporadic over the years. All have been short lived. The only time there seems to be a lasting price reduction on a model is when a new generation is developed. These events are few a far between. Given what Ethos is purported to do, I think it could be a very long time before something better comes along.

#50 kfred

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 07:25 AM

Great report! After reading it, I'm now looking foward to viewing through one.

Fred






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