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M33 exploration

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#1 yann pothier

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:06 AM

Here is the compilation of a few hours of observation
(about 10 at the eyepiece...:tonofbricks:) of the Pinwheel
Galaxy, spreaded between 2006 and 2009 !

A Coulter Dobsonian of 17.5" was used at high power (271x)
because the goal was to check every internal knot (HII
regions, OB associations mainly). Now that the sketch is
assembled, it seems I have to manage a few more observing
sessions with a wider field of view in order to show global
spiral pattern in a more complete way.

Of course, with 271x (18' field), one doesn't look at the
entire field as represented on the drawing (the mosaic is
about 50'x40'), but the small internal nebulae have to be
enlarged enough to be visible.

I went through the following steps :

-field sketch on a mosaic of 8 "A4" sheets,

-cleaned-up drawing on a mosaic of 9 "A3" sheets,

-digitizing the drawings (via scanner), assembling the
different galaxy parts and equalizing the intensity
variations, and then adjusting each nebula's brightness.

Posted Image
The A4 mosaic of field sketches.

Posted Image
The final A3 mosaic.

Posted Image
Final assembled drawing.

Hereafter, I paste a small animated .gif that compares the
resulting drawing with a "green" ccd image (courtesy
Richard CRISP). This green image is the "nearest" objective
document that can be compared to the scotopic vision used
for the drawing. It is most interesting and some areas in
the south part are missing in my drawing, but a spiral arm
portion is missing in the ccd image on the same galactic
side... to be verified : I guess I will spend some more
hours on this objects after all!

Posted Image

see you,
yann

#2 Jeremy Perez

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 12:16 PM

Fantastic! What a wonderful project and excellent results, Yann.

#3 ericj

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 12:49 PM

Hi Yann,

Very impressive project, thanks for posting your results.

Clear Skies,

Eric Jamison

#4 Jef De Wit

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 01:10 PM

Yann

Really impressive work! All those hours of observing were worth it. I wouldn't even think about beginning something like that....

ps The animation doesn't work for me.

#5 frank5817

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 02:51 PM

Yann,

This is amazing. A lot of time and effort well spent.:waytogo:

Frank :)

#6 JayinUT

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:33 PM

Yann,

Simply and yet highly complex, so the only verb I have is astounding! What a wonderful work that you have compiled and I have to say, the image of M33 imposed on your sketch reflects the accuracy and beauty that you've captured.

#7 NUNKY

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 02:22 AM

Salut Yann,
Déjà vu ton post sur astrosurf, chapeau, sacré boulot !! :bow:
Pas beaucoup de frenchies ici ! :question:
Christian

#8 Neutrino?

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 02:58 AM

Wow. That simply is amazing. Great work Yann.

Also. I really like your website. It has attracted me to sketching and provided me with lots of info!...hopefully I'll be making my first sketches in the coming week if clouds do not ruin my fun again like last weekend.

#9 starquake  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 06:46 AM

Yann, this seems to be a really fantastic project. May I ask what is the average limiting magnitude on your sketches? I sometimes reach stars of about 15.2 with direct vision and 15.6 with averted with my 12". I wonder if I have the chance at all to see such faint details.

#10 JayKSC

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 08:39 AM

Impressive, Yann! You've tackled a daunting project with incredible results. Thanks for sharing this and for inspiring me to continue to "go deep" with sketching. Certainly your project has taken a tremendous amount of patience, which I think is as important in this hobby as equipment or experience.

:) Jay
South Florida

#11 CarlosEH

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:37 AM

Yann,

An outstanding observation and project in recording M33 (Pinwheel Galaxy). This is a very interesting galaxy but difficult to make out if observing in less than very dark skies and with sufficient aperture. Thank you for posting your excellent observation. Your effort has been greatly rewarded.

Carlos

#12 yann pothier

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:33 AM

CarlosEH, JayKSC, starquake, Neutrino?, JayinUT, frank5817, Jef De Wit, Jeremy Perez>
Thanks, all, for your kind comments !

Nunky> Normal Christian, c'est un forum US à la base... ;-)

starquake> The visual limit for this telescope and site was once tested as 16.8, so the faintest stars in the
drawing should reach this level (say between 16 and 17).
The following labelled sketch might help you. Next to the knots' reference (after the slash), the apparent
"brightness" is given according to the following scale : VD is for direct vision, VI for averted vision and the
steps are 1 to 3 for VD and 1 to 5 for VI. The decreasing brightness sequence is thus VD1, VD2, VD3, VI1, VI2,
VI3, VI4, VI5, VI5+, etc. until VI5+++++.
VD1 is for objects seen 100% of the time with direct vision,
VD2 50%
VD3 on the verge of averted vision
VI1 is for objects seen 100% of the time with averted vision,
VI2 75%
VI3 50%
VI4 25%
VI5 10%
VI5+ less than 5%
....
VI5 +++++ is for objects glimpsed once or twice over a long period of time.
Maybe you can explore what is your limit on a limited number of objects and then decide what if your limit with
the 12" and your observing site!


Posted Image

For a higher resolution image, just follow http://www.astrosurf...m033-anotee.jpg


The hardcore deepsky geek will find the raw data of the individual objects just below. These confirm that a
good number of DSOs are gathered at once in this drawing, and that individual extragalactic stars of M33 (i.e.
WR stars) can be reached by a 17.5" (and maybe less)...

reference type alpha delta B V
[BCM85] 65 Emission Object 01 34 16.3+30 51 56 16.4 16.4
[CS82] M1 Cluster of Stars 01 34 07.6+30 52 17.9 17.2
[CS82] U114 Object of unknown nature 01 33 59.0+30 32 48
[FS95b] L123-1 Object of unknown nature (non-stellar) 01 33 49.8+30 40 59.2 15.6016.60
[HS80] 8A Star in Association 01 34 00.0+30 33 55 16.26
[MJ98] C21 WR star 01 33 38.3+30 43 02.1
[MJ98] WR 19 WR star 01 33 07.4+30 42 58.5 17.4217.23
[MJ98] WR 26 WR star 01 33 11.4+30 48 56.9 16.61
[SBG2007] 18 Cluster of Stars 01 34 28.2+30 36 17.7 16.025
2MASS J01350881+3102189 Galaxy 01 35 08.8+31 02 19.0 15.5
BCLMP 10 HII (ionized) region 01 33 53.6+30 35 30 12.6
BCLMP 218 HII (ionized) region 01 33 00.7+30 30 51 11.9
BCLMP 220 HII (ionized) region 01 33 10.6+30 27 25 14.8
BCLMP 221 HII (ionized) region 01 33 10.7+30 27 23
BCLMP 229 HII (ionized) region 01 33 01.8+30 34 50 14.1
BCLMP 230 HII (ionized) region 01 33 01.1+30 34 05 13.8
BCLMP 237 HII (ionized) region 01 32 52.7+30 34 55 13.5
BCLMP 249 HII (ionized) region 01 33 38.0+30 20 48
BCLMP 25 HII (ionized) region 01 33 45.0+30 36 28 13.3
BCLMP 255 HII (ionized) region 01 33 09.0+30 22 48
BCLMP 256 HII (ionized) region 01 33 11.4+30 23 25 11.9
BCLMP 261 HII (ionized) region 01 32 52.0+30 23 12
BCLMP 265 HII (ionized) region 01 32 43.5+30 24 00 12.7
BCLMP 268 HII (ionized) region 01 32 41.8+30 25 04 15.2
BCLMP 269 HII (ionized) region 01 32 39.0+30 25 06
BCLMP 272 HII (ionized) region 01 32 34.1+30 27 44 13.4
BCLMP 273 HII (ionized) region 01 32 32.0+30 30 30
BCLMP 274 HII (ionized) region 01 32 30.8+30 35 07 14.7
BCLMP 281 HII (ionized) region 01 32 37.6+30 40 09 12.2
BCLMP 288 HII (ionized) region 01 33 07.1+30 42 37 13.0
BCLMP 302 HII (ionized) region 01 34 06.9+30 47 26 14.4
BCLMP 4 HII (ionized) region 01 33 59.3+30 35 49 14.3
BCLMP 45 / VGHC 2-34 HII (ionized) region 01 33 28.8+30 40 25 11.3
BCLMP 5 HII (ionized) region 01 33 58.0+30 35 24
BCLMP 59 HII (ionized) region 01 33 40.0+30 43 00
BCLMP 62 HII (ionized) region 01 33 44.8+30 44 47 11.2
BCLMP 629 HII (ionized) region 01 33 36.7+30 50 32 13.6
BCLMP 632 HII (ionized) region 01 33 49.3+30 51 48 11.4
BCLMP 637 HII (ionized) region 01 33 51.0+30 56 48
BCLMP 640 HII (ionized) region 01 33 36.0+31 01 42 12.4
BCLMP 641 HII (ionized) region 01 33 44.0+31 02 24
BCLMP 650 / VGHC 2-107 HII (ionized) region 01 34 33.6+31 00 21.2 14.8
BCLMP 657 HII (ionized) region 01 34 50.0+30 54 50 13.9
BCLMP 662 HII (ionized) region 01 34 24.4+30 54 50 16.3
BCLMP 668 HII (ionized) region 01 34 03.0+30 55 12
BCLMP 671 HII (ionized) region 01 34 06.0+30 51 54
BCLMP 677 HII (ionized) region 01 34 41.0+30 45 54
BCLMP 684 HII (ionized) region 01 34 21.0+30 48 42
BCLMP 685 HII (ionized) region 01 34 20.1+30 48 58 14.1
BCLMP 687 HII (ionized) region 01 34 12.8+30 48 10 15.8
BCLMP 691 HII (ionized) region 01 34 16.4+30 51 55 14.1
BCLMP 696 HII (ionized) region 01 33 57.8+30 48 46 15.6
BCLMP 703 / IC 140 HII (ionized) region 01 33 57.9+30 33 06 12.2
BCLMP 705 HII (ionized) region 01 34 40.0+30 31 12
BCLMP 706 HII (ionized) region 01 34 41.0+30 31 30
BCLMP 734 HII (ionized) region 01 34 29.9+30 40 46 12.1
BCLMP 740W HII (ionized) region 01 34 39.6+30 41 52
BCLMP 748 HII (ionized) region 01 34 36.0+30 44 06
BCLMP 749 HII (ionized) region 01 34 38.8+30 44 03 13.3
BCLMP 753 HII (ionized) region 01 34 58.3+30 41 43 15.0
BCLMP 755 HII (ionized) region 01 35 06.0+30 41 00
BCLMP 756 HII (ionized) region 01 35 06.7+30 41 52 12.3
BCLMP 758 HII (ionized) region 01 33 58.3+30 27 38 12.7
BCLMP 77 HII (ionized) region 01 34 06.2+30 41 47 12.0
BCLMP 83 HII (ionized) region 01 34 09.1+30 39 10 13.7
BCLMP 87E HII (ionized) region 01 34 02.5+30 38 41
CBF 142 Cluster of Stars 01 34 40.3+30 46 00.7 15.854
CBF 48 Cluster of Stars 01 33 58.8+30 34 43.9 19.2118.79
CBF 61 Cluster of Stars 01 33 45.0+30 47 46.7 18.7 17.6
ChASeM33 294 X-ray source 01 34 18.2+30 24 49.7
CPSDP 101 HII (ionized) region 01 33 11.8+30 48 50 13.2
CPSDP 132 HII (ionized) region 01 33 34.1+30 33 53 11.8
CPSDP 19 HII (ionized) region 01 32 59.7+30 23 20 13.4
CPSDP 194 HII (ionized) region 01 33 11.1+30 45 18 15.7 16.1
CPSDP 226A HII (ionized) region 01 33 47.4+30 44 49 14.2
CPSDP 26 HII (ionized) region 01 32 33.8+30 27 09 11.8
CPSDP 366A HII (ionized) region 01 35 05.9+30 41 08 13.5
CPSDP 377 HII (ionized) region 01 34 31.2+30 57 22 18.8 18.7
CPSDP 378 HII (ionized) region 01 34 31.7+30 57 30 14.4
CPSDP 74 HII (ionized) region 01 32 56.6+30 31 48 14.8
CPSDP 99 HII (ionized) region 01 33 52.6+30 39 09 16.45
groupe anonyme 1 Cluster of Stars 01 34 52.7+30 55 51.6
IC 132 HII (ionized) region 01 33 15.8+30 56 45
IC 133 HII (ionized) region 01 33 15.9+30 53 02 12.2
IC 133W HII (ionized) region 01 33 12.0+30 53 3000
IC 135 Nebula of unknown nature 01 33 12.0+30 28 3000
IC 137 Nebula of unknown nature 01 33 36.0+30 31 3000
IC 142 HII (ionized) region 01 33 55.1+30 45 22 11.3014.2
IC 143 Nebula of unknown nature 01 34 06.0+30 47 3000 11.40
LGGS J013300.23+302323.7 Infra-Red source 01 33 00.1+30 23 23.6 16.3416.55
LMA M 33 59 Emission Object 01 33 16.3+30 52 49.4 15.8016.70
M 33 OB21A Association of OB stars 01 32 56.1+30 34 28.0
M 33 OB88 Association of OB stars 01 34 59.3+30 42 01.3
NGC 588 HII (ionized) region 01 32 45.2+30 38 54 11.5
NGC 592 HII (ionized) region 01 33 00.1+30 34 37 13.0
NGC 595 HII (ionized) region 01 33 35.5+30 41 52.0 13.1
NGC 604 HII (ionized) region 01 34 33.5+30 47 03.5 11.5
NPM1G +30.0050 / [CS82] CCluster of Stars 01 34 49.5+30 21 56.0 16.0415.91
VGHC 2-99 HII (ionized) region 01 34 17.3+30 33 36 12.4

#13 ladip63

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 01:17 PM

WOW Yann!! What a project. Great job!!
Lynn
I guess I better get learn Gimp so I can post my sketches.

#14 blb

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 02:35 PM

How did you get your sketches on 8 different sheets? Did you print out the star field on those sheets for adding M33 to if? I just do not understand the process used to get the observations on 8 different sheets that look like they joined each other so well. How big was your field of view when observing? Is a small field of view why you went to sketching on 8 different sheets? Help me understand the process, it looks like something I too could use if I understood how you did it.

Thanks, Buddy

#15 FJA

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 04:09 PM

Wow, impressive efforts there Yann! Not only is that an awesome set of observations it's also a good resource for other observers. :bow:
Are you also going to send this in to the Webb Deep Sky Society?

#16 yann pothier

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 05:59 AM

Lynn, Faith> Thank you for your comments ! Great idea, I will write something more formal to the Webb Soc. shortly.

blb> I printed a basic image about 1° wide and enlarged it several times as a "finder chart". I printed the same field with a star-chart software showing only stars to mag.13 and enlarged it in the same way, for the draft in the field drawing. At the eyepiece, I checked every star and added the fainter ones, and looked for objects I had noted on the "finder chart". The important thing, here, is to print and enlarge afterwards, because if your print each zone individually, the projection used by the software distorts things at the edges and you can't join properly the drawings (I made the mistake at first...)

Eric> I will shortly reduce the image sizes (as I did not respect the forum's rules for image sizes, in total unawareness), sorry for any inconvenience !

#17 Jeremy Perez

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for describing the process, Yann--and excellent caveat about problems introduced by printing the chart to separate sheets. I'm getting ready to do something similar tonight with Markarian's chain & vicinity...although not the awesome multi-page adventure you embarked on! I'll just be working on a single 9" x 12".

#18 yann pothier

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 02:14 AM

Jeremy> maybe there is a projection type that allows this mosaic work (I'm not at all familiar with charting), and I have not explored the different options offered (I am a Guide 8 user). I will and report back for those interested.
This larger scale type of drawing gives a "cleaner" sketch when scaled down, and a smoother nebulosity I believe.

clear skies to all, Yann.

#19 markseibold

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 05:14 AM

Yann

What an amazing disciplined effort on your part to document M33! :bow: :bow: :bow:

I'll look forward to seeing your next large observational sketch project progress.

I wonder if I could apply your methods to a large whole moon observation and sketch as I research a larger image I'd like to produce now, as I'm receiving requests for my work.

Mark
www.markseibold.com
My CN Gallery

#20 Jeff Young

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:23 PM

Excellent results, Yann!

Cheers,
-- Jeff.

#21 yann pothier

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 09:23 AM

Mark, Jeff> thanks for your comments !

Mark> For the moon, why not ? But I guess it's a challenge because there's a lot of details everywhere, and the libration has to be taken into account.
M33 is not so changing, so much easier : you can go back to your drawing one time or the other. But with the moon, phase and libration could be separating observing sessions under similar conditions very widely. I am not a planetary sketcher but it would be a tremendous achievement if you could do that !
If I had to do that, I guess I would make a draft from an image or software, just to plot down a "grid" of main features as a base to sketch in proper place the rest of the details. A titan's work indeed !

#22 niteskystargazer

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:59 AM

Yann


:waytogo:, Nice pic.

:thanx:,

Tom






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