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ST8300C

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#1 David Pavlich

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 08:03 PM

Anyone take delivery of the ST8300C?

David

#2 BlueGrass

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 08:23 PM

Still waiting on mine... OPT says end of January, early February. You also ordered from OPT David? They said they got 8 monos in the first shipment and hope to get 8 colors in that first shipment. We'll see...

#3 justabob

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:06 PM

Still waiting! Thats ok, I have had almost no clear skies here. But I am ready for wide field with my eos lens adapter. Still I hope I have time to learn a bit about it and build a dark library before the weather improves.

#4 lawrie

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:45 PM

I was told Feb.
Your right the weather has been terrible.

#5 mikertx

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 10:28 PM

Hey Guys,

I'm curious why would you buy the OSC version of the 8300 over an OSC with the Sony ICX-413AQ like the QHY8? The 413 is a larger chip and is lower noise. The only two reasons that I've come up with are, 1. maybe you're more comfortable with the QA and support from SBIG and 2. you want the smaller pixels for use on a short focal length refractor.
Have I missed anything?

Mike

#6 David Pavlich

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:14 PM

Hey Guys,

I'm curious why would you buy the OSC version of the 8300 over an OSC with the Sony ICX-413AQ like the QHY8? The 413 is a larger chip and is lower noise. The only two reasons that I've come up with are, 1. maybe you're more comfortable with the QA and support from SBIG and 2. you want the smaller pixels for use on a short focal length refractor.
Have I missed anything?

Mike


In my case, I have a C14/Hyperstar. The 8300C is a very good match for the system. Its small profile is one good thing and the other is that the K8300 chip should work well at f1.9. And yes, having SBIG as the camera maker also played a big part in the decision.

David

#7 BlueGrass

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:19 PM

Mike,
That pretty much sums it up for me. :grin:
This will be my first dedicated AP CCD. I had read a number of forums, posts and articles about the various cameras, vendors and the whole mono vs. OSC debate. For me, at my present, limited knowledge, the OSC offered less of a learning, imaging and processing curve than mono. Some day I will probably move to LRGB. For now, the 8300C with the quality and support of SBIG was the logical choice.

#8 justabob

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:20 PM

Hey Guys,

I'm curious why would you buy the OSC version of the 8300 over an OSC with the Sony ICX-413AQ like the QHY8? The 413 is a larger chip and is lower noise. The only two reasons that I've come up with are, 1. maybe you're more comfortable with the QA and support from SBIG and 2. you want the smaller pixels for use on a short focal length refractor.
Have I missed anything?

Mike


I will be using mine with short fl glass, mostly lenses.

Yes the reasons you stated as well as long proven track record of customer service.

Excellent software included.

I prefer a regulated camera.

No knock on the qhy8, but if it is superior I wonder why they felt the need to introduce the qhy9c?

#9 mikertx

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:48 PM

Thanks all. I understand your reasoning.

Bob, Actually Qui never originally intended to make the QHY9 in the color version but folks started asking for it. BTW, I'm not claiming it's a superior OSC just that some specs are superior. The size of the chip is not my opinion, it's a simple fact. I have a mono QSI-583 and a QHY-8. I like them both.

Congrats on the new cameras and I look forward to your results!

Mike

#10 justabob

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 12:41 AM

The size of the chip is not my opinion, it's a simple fact.


Correct, the physical size is larger. Same as an aps size dslr chip. The chips are quite different in total pixels.

6mega pixels for the 413 and 8.3 for the 8300.

#11 lawrie

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 01:16 PM

On the website for the QHY-8 camera it says read noise at
8-12e @600kp/s.
The website for the SBIG camera says
9.3e @ 1000kp/s
I don't understand where the Q has less noise, or is it thermal noise?
I am getting a camera because the pixel size is a very good match for my NP101 around 2"/p , the build quality that should come from the SBIG brand, regulated cooling and the software supplied.
I also plan on eventually getting a 8300 mono camera (in time), but at that point the Atik 8300L looks interesting especially at the price point they are talking $1870.00 +-

#12 justabob

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 01:58 PM

I am pretty sure the person operating the camera and processing the images will play a much larger role in final image quality than specs on noise that differ by a few electrons.

#13 m2434

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:34 AM

On the website for the QHY-8 camera it says read noise at
8-12e @600kp/s.
The website for the SBIG camera says
9.3e @ 1000kp/s
I don't understand where the Q has less noise, or is it thermal noise?
I am getting a camera because the pixel size is a very good match for my NP101 around 2"/p , the build quality that should come from the SBIG brand, regulated cooling and the software supplied.
I also plan on eventually getting a 8300 mono camera (in time), but at that point the Atik 8300L looks interesting especially at the price point they are talking $1870.00 +-


They mean thermal noise. I am playing with a friends Orion SSP V2, which is more or less the same camera. Really the difference is it is interlaced, not progressive. This means when you read from the chip, it reads every other line, then the other line. There is a 1/60th second delay before reads, so, if your doing very short exposures the QY8 is a little better. Also, the QHY8 is said to be cooled -40 deg C ver -30 def C for the Orion. However, otherwise, they are essentially the same.

Anyway, for the Orion the I have taken a lot of darks and there really is almost no thermal noise. A 10min dark, in my house (70 deg F), after subtracting bias, had an average background value of approx 29 ADU. Also, I took a series of darks ranging from 6 to 30 minutes and there really wasn't any obvious difference. Unfortunately, the noise difference between it and my Canon XT 350 does not seem to make for better pictures for me at least. After stacking, they do look look a bit cleaner, but that dosn't seem to translate to more detail, which is what I really want.

The SBIGs's smaller pixels may make a slight difference as far as detail and I seriously doubt any noise difference would be noticeable after stacking a few images....

#14 Gama

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:49 AM

On the website for the QHY-8 camera it says read noise at
8-12e @600kp/s.
The website for the SBIG camera says
9.3e @ 1000kp/s
I don't understand where the Q has less noise, or is it thermal noise?
I am getting a camera because the pixel size is a very good match for my NP101 around 2"/p , the build quality that should come from the SBIG brand, regulated cooling and the software supplied.
I also plan on eventually getting a 8300 mono camera (in time), but at that point the Atik 8300L looks interesting especially at the price point they are talking $1870.00 +-


Hi Lawrie,
Firstly, the Sony CCD in the QHY-8 or equivalent cameras using the Sony CCD is totally different to the CCD in the ST8300 or any camera using the KAF-8300.

Secondly, the read out noise may change when read at a faster or slower speed. This is why they specify at what speed the read noise was measured at.

Theo

#15 Ohioastro

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 01:29 PM

Just finished a call to OPT (Rod). Two to three weeks. About what I expected from an order placed Nov. 2009

#16 BlueGrass

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:26 PM

That's also what I heard a week or so ago. End of January for first 8300C cameras to arrive..... let hope so .... :getem:

#17 nofxrx

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:43 PM

I ordered on 1/3/10,was told the ST8300M would be available MAYBE by March.
I canceled the order though as my interests have shifted..
I hate waiting..I will buy one when they hit the used market!!

#18 BlueGrass

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:56 PM

Well, you may not see one for awhile Brent, but Good Luck to you! Maybe one will show up if a person gets out of AP or decides to go with the Atik or a Sony based camera.

#19 David Pavlich

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 10:57 PM

The way I understand it, the initial OSC version shipments will be for those that were on the initial order list. If you got on later, it'll be closer to March.

David

#20 justabob

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 01:48 AM

I wonder where I am in the que I ordered on November 15th?

#21 nofxrx

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 02:17 AM

Yeah,I had a choice to upgrade the CCD,or upgrade the OTA...
So,I pulled myself from the line and bought the last AT10RC from OPT...
Figured that sometime in the next year i will be able to get back on the ST8300 list....hopefully,if everything goes to plan.

OPT told me that they get deliveries every month from SBIG.But the waiting list is about 3 months long..
I originally thought they did not have any until the next production run in March,I was completely wrong.They are manufacturing them non-stop(which is good since demand is WAY up there),and are shipping to distributors every month..
pretty common logic,but for some reason escaped me when I ordered mine...lol

#22 BlueGrass

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 09:10 PM

Bob, you ordered a few days after me. Based on what the tech told me, I was number eight. So.... you might get yours at the same time. Depends on whether anyone has canceled their reservation, unwilling to wait. This is all just conjecture too since I really have no way of knowing what the actual list looks like now and how many cameras they're going to receive in the initial shipment. Let's hope so...

#23 rray6

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 10:06 PM

I am considering either the ST-8300C or Orion's Parsec 8300C. They seem virtually the same except that Orion boasts regulated dual-stage thermal cooling as well as a full frame (32 mb) memory buffer. Does the SBIG unit have similar cooling and memory buffer? Of course, I have to admit I am comparing Orion vs SBIG (and a significant price difference), but can anyone tell me if the Orion product has more features that should be worth considering? Thanks.

Robert

#24 David Pavlich

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 10:55 PM

I am considering either the ST-8300C or Orion's Parsec 8300C. They seem virtually the same except that Orion boasts regulated dual-stage thermal cooling as well as a full frame (32 mb) memory buffer. Does the SBIG unit have similar cooling and memory buffer? Of course, I have to admit I am comparing Orion vs SBIG (and a significant price difference), but can anyone tell me if the Orion product has more features that should be worth considering? Thanks.

Robert


Not sure about the buffer, but the ST is single stage cooling. BUT, it is an SBIG.

David

#25 rray6

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 08:57 AM

Since I am coming from an Orion StarShoot Pro (ver 1), any regulated cooling is a plus. I don't understand the difference between single & dual stage or if it is even significant. Comments would be appreciated. The only advantage I can see in an internal memory buffer is quicker and better image downloads. Surely the ST doesn't lag in this respect but there is no mention of a buffer in the writeups I've seen. Nevertheless, your point is well taken - we're talking about SBIG vs Orion.

Robert






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