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Weight of Loads On CGEM

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#1 Jeff55

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 04:51 PM

I'm curious to get a sense of the amount of weight being carried on these mounts...mine has 34 pounds which it is carrying without a problem...note that I'm strictly a visual observer.

#2 DaemonGPF

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 04:58 PM

There's people out there buying the Edge HD 11 package.. so theres at least 28 lbs up top on those setups. I'd guess for visual it would be fine. I cringe to see how someone's imaging struggles with that kind of configuration turns out. Long focal length, heavy OTA, add on some cameras and maybe a guidescope, filter wheel, etc etc etc, I bet the weight is up there. I suspect it doesn't do too well in that scenario.

#3 Fred1

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 07:34 PM

I'm carrying 39.5 lbs on my CGEM. NO problems. I'm all visual.
BTW, my local scope shop weighed my EdgeHD 11" OTA with dovetail on a shipping scale. It read 29.84 lbs.
Just the dovetail is 2.4 lbs.

#4 DaemonGPF

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 08:02 PM

Anyone imaging on a CGEM with this much weight? I'm curious.

#5 SanDiegoPaul

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:43 AM

Anyone imaging on a CGEM with this much weight? I'm curious.


Well, they say to image with only half the mount's capacity. That would put these mounts with a 20# payload for imaging purposes.

I wish I could use it for my Lx200 but I'm not going to try imaging that way. I am just using the APO on the mount for now, even though the mount is overkill for a small 6# refractor!

#6 galacticphoto

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 08:52 AM

... they say to image with only half the mount's capacity... even though the mount is overkill for a small 6# refractor!


If you consistently see tight round stars in your (5 or 10 minute)exposures, the mount is carrying its load w/o problem. If not, time to put it on a diet, or look for a bigger mount.

If the go-tos are good, and the motors aren't overtaxed, the load for visual work is probably ok.

Robert

#7 nemo129

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 10:55 AM

I'm carrying 39.5 lbs on my CGEM. NO problems. I'm all visual.
BTW, my local scope shop weighed my EdgeHD 11" OTA with dovetail on a shipping scale. It read 29.84 lbs.
Just the dovetail is 2.4 lbs.


Yup, then you add the star diagonal..perhaps the handgrenade sized Axion LX EP, the spotting scope, telrad...or red dot finder of choice, and an extra weight to get the OTA to balance in declination...and this thing gets heavy! I would not dare attempt any AP on this guy, as I would give up in frustration :(. In the next budget cycle I plan to pick up an 80-100mm APO refractor (hopefully used!) and start with my unmodded DSLR. I think Paul has it right, the CGEM will work great on a lightweight scope. Remember there is no such thing as overmounting a scope for AP!

#8 SanDiegoPaul

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 04:20 PM

I think Paul has it right, the CGEM will work great on a lightweight scope. Remember there is no such thing as overmounting a scope for AP!


Yep that is the EXACT premise I based my purchase decision on. When I can afford a bigger mount & I am ready to take my Lx200-10" off it's fork, then I will consider one just for that. But for now, the price of the CGEM was comfortable for me (thankfully) and it will hold a much larger refractor than my Raptor-90. So I have plenty of room left to grow and still maintain the ability to image, which is my major interest. :jump:

#9 DaemonGPF

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 05:01 PM

Maybe... but I'd bet everyone would laugh at the sight of a $300 AT66 mounted on top of a Paramount ME @ $14,500. I would consider that a good case of over-mounting.

#10 nemo129

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 05:18 PM

Hmmm..maybe so...but it would just give you an real good excuse to upgrade your OTA! :jump: Unless the Paramount ME at $14.5K wiped you out!! If you could afford that mount..I don't think you are worrying about cost of a bigger OTA! ;)
Clear Skies!

#11 DaemonGPF

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 05:42 PM

Hmmm..maybe so...but it would just give you an real good excuse to upgrade your OTA! :jump: Unless the Paramount ME at $14.5K wiped you out!! If you could afford that mount..I don't think you are worrying about cost of a bigger OTA! ;)
Clear Skies!


The real question is could my relationship afford it? My wife would never see me again if I had a Paramount. I'd live outside for two reasons. 1) She'd throw me out there for dropping that kind of cash on a hobby she has no interest in, and 2) because I'd never want to come back in anyway.
:grin:

#12 SanDiegoPaul

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 01:49 AM

Hmmm..maybe so...but it would just give you an real good excuse to upgrade your OTA! :jump: Unless the Paramount ME at $14.5K wiped you out!! If you could afford that mount..I don't think you are worrying about cost of a bigger OTA! ;)
Clear Skies!


Hmmm. But remember there are just ~some~things~ that a ParaMount cannot do for you
The real question is could my relationship afford it? My wife would never see me again if I had a Paramount. I'd live outside for two reasons. 1) She'd throw me out there for dropping that kind of cash on a hobby she has no interest in, and 2) because I'd never want to come back in anyway.
:grin:

:lol:

#13 DaemonGPF

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:30 AM

LOL!

#14 nemo129

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:23 PM

[Hmmm. But remember there are just ~some~things~ that a ParaMount cannot do for you
The real question is could my relationship afford it? My wife would never see me again if I had a Paramount. I'd live outside for two reasons. 1) She'd throw me out there for dropping that kind of cash on a hobby she has no interest in, and 2) because I'd never want to come back in anyway.
:grin:


:roflmao:
Thanks! I needed a good chuckle like that at the end of a miserable Monday!

#15 George Methvin

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 04:06 PM

See this is where I get confused I was thinking about buying a CGEM and mounting my Meade 10 sct on it. After reading this post it seem the CGEM want carry my 10 sct plus guide scope and cameras. So if I want to defork my Meade 10sct and put it on a GEM mount for both visual and takening photo the CGEM will not do the job or handle the weight...right?. So the next GEM mount that might can handle that load jumps up in the prices range of around $4999.00 for a CGEpro or $7,295.00 for a losmandy hgm titan would these mounts work? I would hope so for that kind of money. At that price I can buy a whole new 12 SCT to 14 inch fork mounted goto with all the bells and whistles and have money left over. So I guess what I am asking, what doe's a working man have to spend to get a GEM mount that can hold a 10sct and be able to take photos with out braking the bank. Would it just be better to never defork the SCT and give up on using it for taken photos or use it as is on a Eq wedge. Or spend another $5000.00 to $8000.00 on a new mount just to be able to take some Deep sky photos. WOW is every one out there that are taking those great deep sky photos using these high end very costly GEM mounts? if not then what are they using because I would like to know so I don't have to spend $5000.00 just to take a photo of M42 or M13, I thank that my fork mounted SCT on a Eq wedge is looking better all the time...and I already have all of that..... :lol:

#16 DaemonGPF

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 04:36 PM

George, I'm right there with you. Trying to figure out the best solution at this point for imaging within a certain budget. It seems so much cheaper to build up a dual fork SCT with a wedge to image, but I can't seem to find much info on Periodic Error in some of the typical fork systems from Meade or Celestron as example, nor what sort of capacity limitations those motors have when adding cameras, and guidescopes, etc. All of the GEMs I'm considering upgrading into start at the $5K mark and go up from there. Seems the only way to get a good blend of feature, capacity, and precision without compromising if you want to image on a GEM. $5K buys a nice fork mount SCT setup, with room to spare on accessories for sure. Decisions, decisions.

#17 Gargoyle

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 09:10 PM

Josh and George,

And I'm with both of you guys too... very well put George! I'm running a damaged Dec gear that Meade will not ship to me for replacement without sending my LX200R in for repair (which will incur a cost) which is just good money thrown away in my opinion. I've tried many times and they just flatly refuse to sell me the gear.

A GEM is really the only way to go for me. But as identified, the weight constraints push me to a CGE Pro, and that is a lot of money. So I'm saving a little here, a little there and hoping someday to buy a Pro mount, while nursing the LX200R mount.

Jerry

#18 nemo129

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 09:36 PM

There might be the possibility of picking up a used CGE, but that still might not be enough mount for AP with the loads that George is talking about. I think the CGE is 65lbs load capacity, a bit more than the 40lbs the CGEM is rated for. There is the issue of support from C now that the mount is "retired". The other downside of the CGE Pro...aside from the price :money: is it weighs a ton...well 75lbs for the mount anyway. I think the tripod and pier are a bit over 50lbs. Good if you have a permanent observatory or a scope buggy with a convienient storage location...not so good if you are trucking it outside from the house every good seeing night :p . The things we will do for the love of our hobby! :foreheadslap:

#19 galacticphoto

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:18 AM

Long exposure astrophotography can be expensive. A small market, low quantity production runs, and significant machining/touchtime conspire to keep the cost of mid to large mounts high. If you want a mount that carries a substantial weight (and reliably guides w/ low error) plan on paying for it.

You can have a lot of fun taking very nice photos with much smaller equipment, 3-4" refractors or 6-8" cats. These will allow much smaller (less costly) mounts to carry the equipment while achieveing good long exposure results.

You don't need to remortgage your house in order to buy unnecessary toys.

Robert

#20 George Methvin

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 09:13 AM

That's the way I will have to go is with my 120mm ed refractor on a CGEM mount for astro photos. I will be retireing in a few year and have a place out in the country. I plan on building a observatorie there to house my Meade 10 LX200 and my EON 120mm ed refractor they will both be put on permenent setup. I guess I will buy the CGEM for my 120mm and use it for photos, and hope the LX200 never brakes downs which there no rerason to think it will. Just don't think I want to invest $5000.00 to $8000.00 just to take photos. I hope the CGEM can handle the 120mm and a small guide scope plus camera.....LOL

#21 DaemonGPF

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:04 AM

I did reasonably well starting out on a GC5 then moved to a hypertuned LXD75, but when it came time to move into monochrome imaging with narrowband filters I just simply couldn't sustain long enough exposures without battling PE, and other imperfections that created challenges. Being unable to correct a number of limitations in both mounts, I couldn't go much beyond 4 minute exposures without having to toss a higher percent of subs out the window. My last rig only had 8 lbs of equipment up top. I did everything possible to squeeze the most out of it.

However, when you get to that point, your choices are deal with it, or come up with some cash. I've been changing out lower end hardware for a few years now trying to keep it on the cheap side, but there definitely seems to be a barrier that is difficult to tackle, in which spending some cash would definitely solve. I have been eyeballing larger GEMs for quite a while, and even a CGEM would be a huge jump from where I am today. But, do I want to continue to spend cash in incrimental steps that I seem to grow out of yearly? Or just do it right? How far is far enough to satisfy what I'm after? Problem is, I think the answer lies beyond the price limit that my CFO is going to tolerate right now, so I have to find the best compromise I can and get the most quality possible from the budget I'm working with. Now I'm starting to wonder after talking to several people on here if a fork mount on a wedge is a better option in my budget range to be able to satisfy my need to replace OTA, mount, and Camera equipment. Everyone seems to love them for visual, but information on AP aspects is somewhat limited, especially in regards to precision. That's an important thing to consider since with a twin fork setup, you're generally stuck with a fixed size primary OTA. It just seems like the CGEM or similar would only satisfy the itch partially and I should probably stop considering it at this point. It won't have the capacity, although the precision seems possibly decent with some post-refinement.

I was actually kind of shocked that Paul went with a CGEM considering his LXD rig could potentially be more precise with the exact same load. A GEM does offer the flexibility of changing out hardware with many different configurations.

This is by far the most frustrating hobby I've ever jumped in to LOL. Even building up cars is more simplistic. The build paths are usually cut and dry and you know what to generally expect. With AP, it's like a dark art trying to build the right combination.

#22 George Methvin

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:54 AM

Yea lol but I do love this hobbie. I am trying to buy all I need over the next 3 years because after that I will retire and will be living on a fixed income and not be able to afford a lot of new stuff. So my theory is to buy it now while I can afford it so I will have it later. This is what I have so far,

Meade 10 LX200 classic SCT with super wedge
Orion EON 120mm ed refractor on a Meade LXD75 mount.
Orion 100mm non ed F/6 refractor
Apogee 80mm non ed f/5.6 Refractor
Orion starshooter plantery III color camera.
Orion starshooter DSC I
Cannon Rebel 300 camera.
William optic Binoviewers.
10X80 and 7X50 bino.
Lots of eyepeices.

#23 WirelessDude

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 11:35 PM

I am about to try out my newly-configured gear on my newly-acquired CGEM. The gear comes out to about 30 lbs and initial tests show the mount handles it very well. Bad weather the past few weeks have been preventing further tests. But, this weekend, it seems that will clear. The gear?

Alnitak Flip-Flat -> TV NP127is -> Optec 2" IFW -> Optec 2" Pyxis rotator -> SBIG ST-8300M
SBIG eFinder -> SBIG SG-4 (on TV Piggy Cam)
TV Starbeam

I am hoping this'll be a very well-performing setup for my portable AP needs. If not, I'll go a bit smaller on the OTA with my 80ED -> Moonlight/Cercis... :)

Clear skies!

#24 t.r.

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 07:37 AM

There is a viable solution to the demise of the cge, another mid weight mount, the Losmandy G-11 gemini. I'm looking at this mount more and more. As capable as the cge was, with support and parts supply. You can work on it yourself. If goto "goes", you've got a usable mount still with seperate drives (if you get the gemini as a whole package). For $3200, I find it hard to fault...oh yeah, the hand controller isn't as good as the celestron...thats about it.
The cgem seems too small for growth. The CgePro, too big. The cge was juuust right at 65# cap. Enter the G-11G. :question:

#25 WirelessDude

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 04:37 PM

I had the CGE for a short time. I thoroughly enjoyed it's capabilities and such, but I needed something that was portable. It came in a bit heavy for that duty. The CGEM is perfect for this, even though I may have to go smaller on the OTA, perhaps a 100-110mm. We'll see what happens this weekend with the NP127is...

Clear skies!






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