Jump to content


Photo

M82, a strange structure

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
17 replies to this topic

#1 Nightwid

Nightwid

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 20 Jan 2010

Posted 26 March 2010 - 12:47 PM

Here is a sketch of M82.
M82 has some dark lane and bright area.
And I observed strange structure in North-Western edge.
Very faint nebulosity is there.. It remind me melope's shape
(looks like sweep with a broom!)

[M82 sketch]
Posted Image

[Description]
Posted Image

But any photography of M82 doesn't have such structure.
I don't know it is true or false.
Have you ever seen this structure before?

Below is M82's photo. (google search)
Posted Image


Date : 2010.3.13
Time : 8:10~9:30 (UT)
Location : Cheonmunin-maul, Kangwon-do, S.Korea
Seeing : 5/5
Limiting Mag. : 5.0 → 4.5
Temp : -4C
Equipment : Discovery 15inch dobsonian
Pentax XL 14mm (136x)
White conte & pastel, black paper

#2 niteskystargazer

niteskystargazer

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2009

Posted 26 March 2010 - 12:52 PM

Nightwid,

:waytogo:, Nice sketches and Pic :)

:thanx:,

Tom

#3 ladip63

ladip63

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 813
  • Joined: 17 Oct 2007

Posted 26 March 2010 - 02:29 PM

WOW! Really nice nightwid :D :goodjob:
Lynn

#4 Alpha Orionis

Alpha Orionis

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 205
  • Joined: 04 Jun 2009

Posted 26 March 2010 - 04:20 PM

i really enjoyed your sketch, night wind.....this one and the other open cluster one

#5 BillP

BillP

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12048
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2006

Posted 26 March 2010 - 05:13 PM

Wonderful detail you caught in that observation! The two brighter spots and the arrow shaped V one can find in many photos ( example). However, the fan shaped extension I cannot find anyplace, sketch or photo. Interesting.

FYI, infrared photos do show material being ejected into the region you show though - link

#6 Hrundi

Hrundi

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2006
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2008

Posted 26 March 2010 - 11:22 PM

Infrared photos show material being ejected into every region though.
Could it be an optical illusion though? I noticed on some DSS photos that while the bright part of the galaxy narrows and bends "up" on the side with your fan, the galaxy's general shape remains straight. Thus would it be possible for the eye to perceive the bright part as a sort of straight 'guide line', and thus extrapolate that the actually unbent part of the galaxy fans out in the direction opposite the bending.
Add in relatively minor glare from that bright star, and it could, I think, be enough to make it look as if there's an extension there.

#7 JayinUT

JayinUT

    I'm not Sleepy

  • *****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Joined: 19 Sep 2008

Posted 27 March 2010 - 12:22 AM

Nightwid,

Excellent sketch of M82, and terrific analysis. Here are some images M82 Chandra , taken with the Chandra telescope. They show the outflow of material from the galaxy in above and below the central region but I don't see a flow out from where the broom you observed is. Hrundi offers some good possible alternatives.

#8 frank5817

frank5817

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8541
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2006

Posted 27 March 2010 - 01:41 AM

Kanguk,

This is a terrific sketch of M 82.:waytogo:

Frank :)

#9 NerfMonkey

NerfMonkey

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 565
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2008

Posted 27 March 2010 - 02:41 PM

Excellent sketch. I've seen the brighter areas within the galaxy that you mentioned as well as the dark lane in the center on several occasions. But I've only noticed that faint fan-shaped area once, very recently. To me it just looked like an extremely faint bit of fuzziness surrounding that end of the galaxy, and I wasn't sure I was really seeing it or not. Now I believe this structure is real but don't even have a guess as to what it could be.

#10 Jef De Wit

Jef De Wit

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2819
  • Joined: 06 Mar 2009

Posted 27 March 2010 - 04:23 PM

Nightwid
I found one sketch out of 41 in Deepskylog (click link here) who may have the same mistery triangle. The sketch was done by Guido Gubbels with a 25 cm dobson @ x178.

Link to image

EDIT: Sorry Jef - you must have explicit permission to repost someone else's work. A link is permissible however. Also, I trimmed down your link text and made it clickable so folks could get to the website easier. CH

#11 JayKSC

JayKSC

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
  • Joined: 01 Jan 2005

Posted 27 March 2010 - 08:22 PM

Fantastic sketch, Nightwid! It looks very much like a photograph, congrats.

As for the fan like nebulosity you've captured, it may be an optical illusion. I find that when observing many dim, diffuse objects the hazy nebulosity (or galaxy glow) nearer stars can seem to be a little brighter. Just a guess.

:) Jay
South Florida

#12 BillP

BillP

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12048
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2006

Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:01 AM

Just found another sketch that shows what you saw. So others are seeing this also. I also not that on many photos by amateurs there is significant nebulocisty in the rehion between the core and that 1st bright star you have as teh reference point. So definitely nebulocity in that region.

Sketch

Photo

#13 Nightwid

Nightwid

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 20 Jan 2010

Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:39 PM

Thank you for your comments!! :flower: :bow:

I'm also confused about illusion or real structure....

So, I'll observe M82 next time with my experienced colleagues.


#14 JayinUT

JayinUT

    I'm not Sleepy

  • *****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Joined: 19 Sep 2008

Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:11 PM

Nightwid,

I went back and looked at the Hubble image found here and with that bright star as a reference it appears that the dust lanes or "shredded clouds" are bending down toward that star. I wonder if that is what you and others are detecting?

Posted Image

#15 GlennLeDrew

GlennLeDrew

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10999
  • Joined: 17 Jun 2008

Posted 28 March 2010 - 02:17 PM

Very nice sketch!

My impression is that the 'bright' star contained within the nebulous extension is the culprit. The light from this star could be scattered by one or more of the following:
- dirty optics.
- smudge on the eyepiece.
- dew on the optics.
- thin cloud.
- your own eye.

And the proximity of the galaxy and the star is a quite good candidate for the appearance of spurious extensions such as this. The visual system has a powerful propensity for making such 'connections.'

#16 Jef De Wit

Jef De Wit

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2819
  • Joined: 06 Mar 2009

Posted 28 March 2010 - 02:24 PM

Hi everybody

I still have a lot to learn about posting links, but I hope this will work better sketches of M82

@Jay: Thanks for explaining how it works!

#17 mikesemmler

mikesemmler

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 413
  • Joined: 01 Jun 2009

Posted 28 March 2010 - 03:17 PM

night wind - this is excellent - thanks for posting

Michael

#18 TenthEnemy

TenthEnemy

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 904
  • Joined: 21 Jan 2008

Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:51 PM

That's a nice sketch.

There actually is a fan shaped extension in that direction that is visible in the hubble picture. I'd think it would be invisible the the human eye though. You probably saw the contrast between the dark lane and the glowing sky around it, along with the light from the nearby star, and assumed it to be a larger structure.

You can't always count on your brain accurately representing what your eyes are seeing. I always "see" the complete bridge between M51 and NGC 5195, but I almost never actually see it.






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics