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Jupiter with something missing! NEW SKETCH ADDED

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#1 Jef De Wit

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 03:34 AM

A break in the clouds this morning showed me Jupiter. It took me 30 minutes to find the planet. Searching an object (except the Sun, the Moon and Venus) with a dobson in broad daylight isn't a easy job! But thanks to all the kind advice on CN (:thanx: Carlos, Mark, Kris, Brian, Contrailmaker, Bert and Solshaker) I finally succeeded. Once in the EP I could even see Jupiter easily in the searcher (9x50). At that moment you ask the question: why didn't I find it before?

Jupiter in broad daylight is like a ghost. You have the impression to look through the planet. The NEB was easy to see (@ x92). But I was never so happy I couldn't see something (this don't happen fast in astronomy!). The SEB was nowhere!

I changed the EP to x171 but couldn't see Jupiter anymore. In all my enthousiasme I did not notice the clouds allready rolling in again :bawling:

So the sketch was done inside by memory. Pastel pencils, cotton swab, blue printing paper. I changed the adjustments of the scanner to make it more real. Some cleaning up was done with paint.

Jupiter, 7.15 UT (daylight), 36.8", mag -2.2, alt 36°, 12" dobson @ x92

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#2 JayKSC

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:24 AM

Wow, Jef.

Great sketch of, er, the real Ghost of Jupiter. ;) I'm amazed that you could catch the planet in daylight at all. I've known that you can catch the brightest planets and stars in daylight per articles I've read, but have never seen any sketches (or photos) of such observations.

Great work!

- Jay
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#3 Jef De Wit

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:06 AM

Thanks Jay
I guess with more time (and magnification) I can get more out of Jupiter. I'm going to try again this weekend.

#4 Kris.

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 11:51 AM

nice! it looks seriously difficult to note much detail on jupiter, plus all the trouble in finding it!

#5 Jef De Wit

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 01:06 PM

Kris
The sketch is based on maybe 2 minutes of observing. There must be more detail to see... I will say, give it a try!

Should an apodizing mask be effective by day observing?

#6 frank5817

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 04:37 PM

Jef,

Yes finding the planets in the daytime is doable as you have shown. Nice sketch too. :bow: :cool: If you get a very good transparent morning at the end of June you may have a better view. Also try Saturn before sunset from now until the end of June. Any amount of haze or humidity will destroy the daytime view. A single polarizing filter rotated to darken the sky background will help especially if the planets are about 90 degrees from the sun's position.

Frank :)

#7 Jef De Wit

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:48 AM

Frans, thanks for the kind words! I do not have a polarizing filter.

How long will the belt be missed? Could he be back at the end of June?

#8 frank5817

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 03:04 PM

Jef,

Put on a pair of Polaroid sunglasses and rotate your head to improve the contrast--that should work.


Frank :)

#9 JayKSC

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 08:21 PM

Thanks Jay
I guess with more time (and magnification) I can get more out of Jupiter. I'm going to try again this weekend.


Please do share any results you get, Jef. I look forward to additional daylight sketches - they're quite fascinating.

- Jay
South Florida

#10 CarlosEH

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 02:26 AM

Jef,

An excellent dayitme observation of Jupiter with the missing South Equatorial Belt (SEB). It is striking to see Jupiter without the prominent South Equatorial Belt (SEB). Observing Jupiter in the daytime may reduce the contrast over Jupiter's disk, but you recorded a good amount of detail.

The disappearance of the SEB is known as the SEB Revival. I posted this response earlier but it explains what is occuring.

The SEB Revival consists of the fading of the South Equatorial Belt over a period of a few months (typically two to three months) leaving only the northern component of the belt intact (although much fainter than in the past). The Great Red Spot (GRS) intensifies during this time and becomes it's color namesake. The SEB fading can last up to a period of eighteen months or so then either a white or dark spot appears approximately five degrees preceding the Great Red Spot (GRS). Dark material is then spread out over the SEB over three currents (southern, central, and northern) over a period of several months. The Great Red Spot (GRS) then begins to decrease in intensity/color during the re-emergence of the dark material. The origin of the SEB revival is unknown at this time but it must originate deep within the jovian atmosphere which is very dynamic.

I have attached an observation of Jupiter that I made in 1989 (November 14; L1 254.4*, L2 024.3*, L3 001.6*) using my Celestron 8-inch (20-cm) F/10 Schmidt-Cassegrain (200x/286x, Seeing 8/10, Transparency 3 (Hazy)). The SEB had disappeared and the Great Red Spot (GRS) was a pale brick-red color (northern portion of the GRS was brighter with a haze, longitude of the GRS was then 023.0* L2). The North Tropical Zone (NTrZ) appeared a pastel orange color which was beautiful. It was striking appearance to see Jupiter without it's prominent SEB! http://www.cloudynig...1-14-CEH2c2.jpg

Links;
http://en.wikipedia....here_of_Jupiter
http://www.britastro...piter/guide.htm (BAA Jupiter Guide)
http://www.space.com...ars-100513.html

Have fun observing Jupiter and it's "new look."

Carlos

#11 Jef De Wit

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:34 AM

@ Carlos: thanks for all the information and your beautiful sketch. I hope SEB Revival last untill I can observe Jupiter at night!

@ Frank: I guess Polaroid sunclases are not the usual (cheap) ones?

@ Jay: I had the oppurtinity to observe Jupiter this morning under good conditions and saw (a lot) more than my first observation. I'm working on the sketch and will post it later.

#12 Jef De Wit

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 02:47 PM

I just knew there was more to see than my first sketch. This morning I had no clouds interrupting the observation, just blue sky. I'm getting faster in finding Jupiter in daylight. It took me only 15 minutes this time.

The first thing that strikes the eye is offcourse the NEB. You feel the borders are not straight lines, but impossible to say exactly where he makes some bumps.
The region north of the NEB and the EZ were even, no differences in brightness to see.
The south region is less dark than the NEB and gave a mottled appearance (but again impossible to see detail).
The SPR was brighter than the "south region", but less bright than the NPR. I find it strange, because photo's of Jupiter do not confirm this.
After some effort I could see a thin line (I think I sketched it too much south). I guess it is the northeren border of the SEB. Could anybody confirm this?
The StrZ and SEB were as white as the EZ. So the SEB is stilling "missing".

I had the positions of the Moons with me, but couldn't see them.

Some conclusions after two daylight-sessions:
1) It is rather difficult to find the planet.
2) You will never see more than at night.
3) An apodizing mask makes the planet less bright (this a problem at daylight), but improves the contrast. Frank also suggests that a single polarizing filter (or Polaroid sunglases) should help, but I didn't try it.
4) It is great fun to do. My neighbour asked what the F**** I was looking at :lol:.
5) Focus on the Moon (when visible) or don't touch your focus after a night observing. I measured the distance of the focuser of my low power EP.

Jupiter, Hove (Belgium), 23/05/2010, 7.00-7.30 UT, 12" dobson @ x171, diam 36.7", alt 37°, mag -2.2

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#13 Tommy5

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 03:12 PM

Very cool daylight sketch of Jupiter, hope this new look last until jup is visible at a descent hour.

#14 Jef De Wit

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:35 AM

Thanks Tommy. I hope the same thing. But as Carlos said in his post there will be a lot of change the next month.

I wonder if it will be possible to see the GRS in daylight (who was around the corner the day of my observation).

#15 frank5817

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:17 AM

Jef,

Nice to see your sketch over at ASOD. :rainbow: :cool:
I for one look forward to this view if it ever clears here.

Frank :)

#16 Jef De Wit

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 12:17 PM

Thanks Frank. It is always good for your ego to be on ASOD. It makes my day good (or even better). Hope you get Jupiter once again (under good conditions).






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