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Baader Hyperion 17"" or Mead Ultra wide 18 mm

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#1 Brent Campbell

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:05 AM

I have an 8" Celestron SCT with the following eyepieces

5mm Orion Ultrascopic
5 mm University Optics Ortho
6 mm University Optics Ortho
7 mm University Optics Ortho
Celestron 18 mm Ortho (excellent eyepiece)
Generic 25 MM Ortho made in Japan but not great
Williams Optics 8-24 zoom (useful)
40 MM Mead SWA (also useful for self defense if attacked while using the scope)

I paid $125.00 for the mead 40 mm, and $100.00 for the Williams Optics Zoom. I just purchased a mead 24 mm Ultra wide for $179.00 (new in box unit with damaged box). I'm noting the prices because I want to stress that I want good value.

I really love my 18 mm celestron ortho but the apparent FOV on all the orthos are starting to bug me. What annoys me the most is the view looks TINY although the detail and sharpness are there. Last week, my mead 40 mm SWA really showed Jupiter more impressively than the Orthos.

My 25 mm Ortho isn't teribly useful. It was a "free" eyepiece from another scope but the FOV is awful, the magnification isn't there, and the coatings are not good. This is why it was replaced.

One of my needs is in the 12 mm range to fill in the gap. I would like to start filling out my eyepiece kit with a larger FOV eyepiece starting with the 24 mm that I have on order. I would also like the possibility of barlowing the 1 1/4 eyepieces because I have a fairly nice 1 1/4 inch barlow.

The mead ultra wide has an 80 deg field of view cost $199.00 fairly good review. The Baader 18 mm costs around $110.00 but can use a Baader "tuning ring" to make it a 13.1 mm an eyepiece that I want buy anyway.

I will add that the 18 mm would be my last mead eyepiece in the ultra wide series because of the weird focal lengths in the smaller powers-so if I bought a mead I would eventually get a 12 mm Baader.

Has anyone had a chance to compare the 17 mm Baader to 18mm Mead UWAN? FOV verses versatility and weight?

#2 RonBurgundy

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:26 AM

I have both of these eyepieces, and I can absolutely positively tell you that when since I purchased the 18mm UWA, the Hyperion really hasn't seen any action.

#3 Tank

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 10:50 AM

I sold my 18mm UWA 5000 , i thought it had a really nice feel to it, compact, WF, sharp, easy to use!
I felt it did about 90-95% what the 17T4 nagler did!
The sky backround was a bit brighter than the 17T4.
I liked the 16T2 Nagler better than the other two, much richer black skies than the other two!
The ER is tighter thou!
At 12mm the nagler 12T2 is a really nice EP highly recommended!

#4 RoadsterGirlie

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 11:59 AM

I've never used the Ultra Wide 18mm, but I love my 17mm Hyperion. It gets a lot of use - probably the most out of my three Hyperions.

#5 Bob Griffiths

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 12:51 PM

Brent:

I can't see ANY use for the following except to tweak your collimation

5mm Orion Ultrascopic
5 mm University Optics Ortho
6 mm University Optics Ortho
7 mm University Optics Ortho

The Zoom may be just fine (I'm just not a zoom lover)so I really can not comment...

Your 18 mm will be VERY useful Plus you seem to like it) and the 40 mm SWA Meade (5000?) is a nice eyepiece although I personally would have picked the 34 mm...

I have no use for th Hyperions with the tuning rings...(I do not see myself screwing around in the dark messing with the rings)...

I have 10 14 and 20 MM Pentax XW's and a 35 mm Panoptic... all of which are keepers....

BUT I also have a 17 mm Orion Stratus an 24 mm Meade 5000 SWA, a 26 mm Agena Eclipse, a 31 mm Proxima and I picked up a 34 mm Meade 5000 SWA to use at star parties ..

The 24 and 34 mm Meade along with the 31 mm Proxima is all I normally use at star parties but I also carry 8.5 and 12 mm Pentax XF's with me...

BTW I run a Denk S1 power switch dioagonal so I can get 3 magnification out of any one eyepiece without even touching the eyepeice...

ALL of my eyepieces are comparable..all are plenty good enough for my old eyes...yes the Pentax XW's and Panoptics are very very good BUT NOT ANYWHERE near $200 or so BETTER then the cheaper eyepieces... Off the top of my head I;d say they preformed 50 bucks better not a cent more...

Bob G

#6 Ouranos

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:09 PM

I love my BH 17 and use it the most out of the three BH I own. It sees significant use in my 8" Celestron CAT.

#7 Arizona-Ken

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:24 PM

Bob Griffiths and I seem to cruise the same forums, and again I second his advice. I too, have the more expensive Pans and XWs, but a Hyperion 13 is a great mid-priced eyepiece in a C8, and is about where you are looking to fit one in.

I'm not a big ortho fan, but they are good eyepieces and will be worthwhile in your stable. However, in my opinion, the wider FOV eyepieces will generally be more useful in a C8.

Arizona Ken

#8 Brent Campbell

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:26 PM

On this C8 in March of last year I was able to use two different 5 mm eyepieces (the ultrascopic and a uo ortho) to get 406 X while viewing Mars! It was FREAKESHLY good conditions-I will never forget that view.

But you are right for most times, I rarely get below 10 mm on this scope with the variable zoom.

I'm leaning towards going for the 17 mm Bader with a tuning ring to take it to 12.1 mm with the eventual goal to buy a separate 12 mm when funding permits.

The reason that I have so many orthos is my 3" vixen refractor (my first scope). With 3" you don't have allot of light to waste on air to glass surfaces so to keep it simple and light for such a small scope I went with Orthos.

#9 Gene7

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 07:33 PM

I have 5 Hyperions and like them a lot. I agree with the comment by Bob that I just do not like the expansion rings. It robs eye relief and makes the eyepiece uncomfortable. Work great on my f5 10 inch Dob.

I also use them on my 80ED for Digiscoping birds. The threaded tops are great to mount small cameras. For star testing get a 2mm Sky-Watcher LET, a great little gem for that, and all of $34.USD.

#10 Fireball

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 08:11 AM

Amongst others I own an 18mm UWA and a 13mm Hyperion. I personally prefer wide-fields thus the Meade series fits far better to my (undriven) dob. They are nice Eps. Nevertheless, I will now save up for more premium EPs like Ethos or XW in the future since they are simply better once you are getting a little bit picky with the views.
Currently, my most used EP is the 10mm (in my case an XW) giving me 150x.

#11 jrbarnett

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:05 PM

18mm Meade Series 5000 Ultra Wide Angle; hands down, if you can afford the extra cost.

Also, what 12mm Baader do you mean? There's a 13mm Baader Hyperion but no 12mm. In any case, I would look for a used 13mm Vixen LVW over a slightly cheaper 13mm Baader Hyperion anyway.

Good luck with your eyepiece hunt!

Regards,

Jim

#12 RonBurgundy

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:28 PM

18mm Meade Series 5000 Ultra Wide Angle; hands down, if you can afford the extra cost.

Also, what 12mm Baader do you mean? There's a 13mm Baader Hyperion but no 12mm. In any case, I would look for a used 13mm Vixen LVW over a slightly cheaper 13mm Baader Hyperion anyway.

Good luck with your eyepiece hunt!

Regards,

Jim



The 18mm is a truly well-made eyepiece, among my favorite.

I also have a 40mm Vixen NLV eyepiece, and it really is a wonderful low-power eyepiece for my SCT. What a great way to round out an eyepiece collection! I'm glad you're a fan of Vixen eyepieces. They simply don't mess around.


EDIT:
I brought up the 18mm UWA and the 40mm Vixen because they have a similar TFOV when used in my SCT. With very different magnifications however, they allow for different studies of the same object. For example, the 40mm takes the cake when observing M81 and M82 in the same field. From a dark site, it's fantastic. Though the 18mm UWA eeks out some details that the 40mm does not. It's truly an interesting phenomenon.

#13 Feidb

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:44 PM

I have the Hyperion 17mm and the 14mm UWA and love them both. I can imagine the 18mm UWA will edge out the Hyperion just because of the wider FOV giving a larger sweet spot in the middle. As for that sweet spot, it could be a tossup to which one is actually better. What I like about the Hyperion is the larger eye lens. I think it is also probably a tad lighter than the UWA because of that super heavy rotating barrel on the UWA. It'd be a tossup for me until I could try them both side by side.

#14 sailor70623

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:59 PM

It apples vs oranges. One wide view heavy EP vs. a lighter more virsatile EP with a narrower view. It depends on what you like. And a Nagler 16T5 will beat the Meade, and may hold value better too.

#15 RonBurgundy

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 01:45 PM

It apples vs oranges. One wide view heavy EP vs. a lighter more virsatile EP with a narrower view. It depends on what you like. And a Nagler 16T5 will beat the Meade, and may hold value better too.


If I'm not mistaken, the jury is still out [and probably will be for a long time] on the Nagler vs. Meade in the 18mm range.

Also, the 18mm UWA is not a heavy eyepiece at all, I assure you. Yes the 24mm is large and the 30mm is truly huge, but the 18mm is a very manageable size and weight.

I also have the 17mm Hyperion, and I think it's a great eyepiece too. However the Meade UWA 18mm wins out for me. I'm certainly not downing the 17mm Hyperion--I kept it! It's great for when the slight extra magnification will bring out certain details in an object that the 18mm UWA Meade will not catch. It's rare, but it certainly happens!

#16 jrbarnett

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 06:40 PM

The 17mm Hyperion weighs ~14oz. The Meade 18mm weighs a ~1 pound. Apples and apples on that score, or close enough. So in what way is the Hyperion actually more versatile?

Not in mass, certainly not in AFOV...Eye relief? Nyet! The Meade has 17mm of eye relief and the Baader has an advertised 20mm...

I think price is the differentiator between these two. If you can swing $199, go with the Meade. If you can't go with the cheaper Hyperion.

You're right about the 16mm Type 5 besting either of them. To me the Type 5 Naglers are the best on-axis, followed by the type 6s and then the Type 4s, that I find to be a bit mushy compared to the Types 5s and 6s. But at $305, the 16mm Type 5 had better schpank(!) both the $120 Hyperion and $199 Meade.

Regards,

Jim

#17 Brent Campbell

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 03:07 PM

Actually I having to wait a couple of weeks for this. My daughter needed a homecoming dress! She looked beautiful in the $230.00 dress that my wife and I bought her. The person altering the dress for us told us that this dress was at least $600.00 when it first came out (it was marked down several times) so I guess I got the value thing worked out. Homecommings this weekend and she is excited!

I will get the eyepiece next month-but I am taking delivery on a 24 mm mead ultra wide today so I am not suffering!






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