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anyone think hypertune is overrated?

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#26 DanB

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 11:39 AM

Thanks Ed, I thought it might be something like this and you've got the best possible pieces/ parts in the kit already.
Apologies for calling the washers 'nylon', I knew they were Teflon and just made a tired mistake.
They really do work fine, its only my imagination which has them compressing or getting scraped up and needing replacememt down the road. On my EQ6 the surface which the bearings ride on is rough and pitted. Not super bad but the casting has bubbles in it and some of the holes are exposed with rough edges not suitable for any bearing really. I used JB Weld on them like you might use bondo to smooth the surface, fill in the couple of pits and get any snags smoothed off and that worked ok. I cant help but think there is a better solution for washers with some creative thinking like on the above post mentions thrust bearings.
Still not complaining though Ed.. I'm super happy with the positive changes I've made with my mount and this Hypertune kit. The fine tuning/ adjustments to the slack in both axis' was priceless as were the new bearings and all of it... All slack is gone and I had a good noticable amount!

About the tripod.. I'm on a pier now days. Did you mix me up with someone asking about the tripod? Be sure to get back to that guy:-)
I should be able to post some images in the CCD forum really soon, perhaps by this weekend so keep eyes open for that. Thanks again, its a wonderful product!
Dan

#27 EFT

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:37 PM

You're right. I sent that PM to the wrong person. I thought it was a little strange that I was sending it to you in the first place.

The holes in the casting are definitely common. As long as the surface is smooth to the touch (i.e., no noticeable snags) I don't think they represent a problem. If there are snags though, then the surface definitely needs to be smoothed out and you are correct that something like a body filler would probably do a good job if the holes are really bad. I haven't run into any that bad yet and I would hope that those would not normally make it through QC in the first place.

Ed Thomas

#28 philming

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:05 AM

Hi there !
I just tweaked my CG5-GT as well, and noticed something.
Sorry I dont have the cash at the moment to get the proper hypertune kit yet, but here's my finding, and a few subsequent questions :
I strated remounting the DEC shaft and noticed the plastic washers wouldnt really fit where they should have for some reason. The one at the bottom of the teethed wheel was OK, but the one on top just would get squashed when I put the shaft back into its housing.
So I just removed the plastic washers alltogether, applying quiet some amount of grease instead. And guess what ? The shaft is turning WAY more smoothly than with the plastic washers...
So here's a question though : I have noticed that the little screw that allows to lock the numbered dial at the bottom of the dec axis, just where the counter-weight bar goes, if screwed in just a tad bit too much, would rub against the lower part of the dec shaft, so that after 1/2 turn of the axis, it would just stuck the mount. Unscrewing it a little solved the problem.
The funny thing is that i dont rememeber it was doing this before i took the mount appart. Not that i really paid attention to it beforehand, but i was just wondering if I had done anything wrong.
What other problem did I run into ? Puting de DEC part back together. Unless I put a LOT of lithium grease that i've been using for this, the teethed wheel and-or the 6006 type bearing wheel would get stuck into the housing. A real pain to unstuck. I'm not sure i didnt damade this sealed bearing in the process and was wondering if that could be purchased somewhere as well ? Any reference - site you could point me to ?

Best regards,

#29 jbattleson

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:07 PM

I have had discussions about substitutes (like specially coated brass) but the costs (materials and equipment like a laser cutter) start to get prohibitive.

Ed Thomas


Ed,
Have you considered making a punch and die set to punch out brass shims from shim stock? I made one out of a piece of Lexan and aluminum for .002 to .010" and steel for .010 and up. Just a thought.
John

#30 EFT

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 10:00 AM

I've have looked into this in the past but my need to be able to cut custom sizes and shapes keep me with the blade cutting and Teflon. There really would be no added benefit to go with brass and the materials cost as well as the equipment costs (punch press) and the increased production time (punching one spacer at a time) just don't support it. I am also able to maximize the use of the Teflon by cutting different spacers and bearing within each other to reduce waste but makes for complicated dies (that's were laser cutting would be better). I have farmed some things like this out in the past but that is quite expensive.

#31 jbattleson

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 09:06 PM

Ed,
I didn't consider different shapes. The dies for that would be expensive.
Another thought is water jet. In the past I bought a lot of custom hydraulic seals from a company called Seal Jet. Not even sure they are around now. They could cut most plastics.
John

#32 Starhawk

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 10:29 AM

I have finally gotten the drive completely adjusted on my CGEM, and I have to say, it seems to be incredibly smooth, now.

What it took was having power on and doing slews while adjusting the drive set screws (side with the drive bumps loosens, far side set screw on the round area tightens). What it really needed was to have the four cover bolts loosened to allow the drive to move. They are shipped gorilla tight (never get bolts this tight). With them gently snug, it was possible to have the drive backlash free, yet free spinning in about 5 minutes. Then tighten the bolts down in a diagonal pattern to keep it from moving. I spun itg through a few 360s to make sure everything was happy.

Do you really need to send it off and pay $325 for that?

-Rich

#33 EFT

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 10:47 AM

Ed,
I didn't consider different shapes. The dies for that would be expensive.
Another thought is water jet. In the past I bought a lot of custom hydraulic seals from a company called Seal Jet. Not even sure they are around now. They could cut most plastics.
John


Water jet cutting is certainly another method to use for things like plastics and if I move up in equipment it is a likely method I would consider. That is one of the methods I looked at for cutting the foam for camera insulation but I went with a local company that did die cutting instead. A water jet cutter is a significant investment and, more important, I currently don't have the space for it. I like to be able to make things myself for cost reasons but particularly for turn around time reasons. If I need something for a customer that I don't have I can cut it now. It can take a fair amount of time to get things from another company. In addition, one-off parts, even when they only require a little bit of CADD programming can be very expensive. There are pluses and minuses to each method but as my business expands I'm sure that the equipment I use will expand as well. I already have a 3-car/no-car garage/shop that my wife loves (and that doesn't include all the stuff that has taken over the house).

#34 EFT

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 10:53 AM

I have finally gotten the drive completely adjusted on my CGEM, and I have to say, it seems to be incredibly smooth, now.

What it took was having power on and doing slews while adjusting the drive set screws (side with the drive bumps loosens, far side set screw on the round area tightens). What it really needed was to have the four cover bolts loosened to allow the drive to move. They are shipped gorilla tight (never get bolts this tight). With them gently snug, it was possible to have the drive backlash free, yet free spinning in about 5 minutes. Then tighten the bolts down in a diagonal pattern to keep it from moving. I spun itg through a few 360s to make sure everything was happy.

Do you really need to send it off and pay $325 for that?

-Rich


If that's all it entailed, I felt confident making the adjustment, and I didn't mind voiding the warranty by doing so, then I certainly wouldn't pay for it. I'm glad your mount required so little work. That's one less that I have to worry about.

For anyone that wants complete instructions on how to adjust the worm gear on the CGEM and Atlas/EQ6 mounts, I have posted them in a pdf file on the appropriate Yahoo groups. No charge. :bigshock:

#35 Phil Cowell

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 11:31 AM

There are a lot of us who don't have free time to play with mounts. Sending it off to get the job done right, by folks who know what they are doing is a good investment.
Phil

#36 nemo129

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 12:29 PM

There are a lot of us who don't have free time to play with mounts. Sending it off to get the job done right, by folks who know what they are doing is a good investment.
Phil


:ubetcha:
That is great advice if you consider the expertise a guy like Ed has developed doing the different types of mounts he has hypertuned. If you are not comfortable the with type of work or do not have the time and or tools, the expense of shipping the mount off to an expert to do the work is a wise choice and will save you some angst! Well worth the extra $ IMHO.

#37 Starhawk

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 01:46 PM

What I describe doesn't void the warranty. No parts are taken apart, no bearings unseated. All it is is a little bit of adjustment.

-Rich
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#38 EFT

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 02:14 PM

What I describe doesn't void the warranty. No parts are taken apart, no bearings unseated. All it is is a little bit of adjustment.

-Rich


It does not void the warranty if you don't tell anyone about it. ;) If you decide to make those adjustments, be sure to not tell them if you have to send the mount in later. I guaranty you that they will consider the warranty void. I think that is wrong since the mount is clearly meant to be adjusted in that fashion but that is their position. I'm sure that is because you can damage the motors (if nothing else) by doing it wrong.

For anyone considering making the adjustment, as soon as the gears bind, STOP SLEWING. It is possible to tear the teeth off of one of the gears in the motor gear box if you continue to slew the axis with the worm and ring gear bound.

#39 jbattleson

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 02:19 PM

Ed,
I had a garage like that for a long long time. You must have a very understanding wife.

For anyone that wants complete instructions on how to adjust the worm gear on the CGEM and Atlas/EQ6 mounts, I have posted them in a pdf file on the appropriate Yahoo groups. No charge. :bigshock:


Have you written anything up on the CGE mount?
Just wondering how hard it would be to do myself.
John

#40 EFT

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 03:13 PM

Ed,
I had a garage like that for a long long time. You must have a very understanding wife.

Have you written anything up on the CGE mount?
Just wondering how hard it would be to do myself.
John


When this became my full time employment (not by choice at the time but I'm glad for it since I like this a lot more than what I use to do), certain sacrafices had to be made. The garage is one of them. I'm just glad I have the space I have since this economy really doesn't support leasing or buying more. Now I have to get the air conditioner installed out their so I don't have to roast as much this summer as I did last summer.

The CGE is in many respects and easier mount to work on since it is a better design in most respects. The tough part is getting the worm gear alignment right since it does not have a good system for that. I have the filming done for a video but I haven't had the time to do the editing yet. Another thing on my long list of things to do. I'm also working on a cable upgrade for it with the prototypes being manufactured right now.

#41 jbattleson

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 03:43 PM

Ed,
I will keep an eye out for your video but am sure I won't be doing anything until next winter.

#42 Mary B

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:31 PM

If you decide to laser cut teflon be careful, the fumes are toxic.

#43 EFT

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:44 PM

If you decide to laser cut teflon be careful, the fumes are toxic.


Yes. I think that the laser cutting would be more appropriate for brass. Water jet would be better for the Teflon and probably most plastics.

#44 Starhawk

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 05:30 PM

The fumes from Teflon include fluorine, so yes, toxic.

On the design of the CGEM, I'm not scan of how the two axes are in ine block. So there is no further breakdown for transport.

And I'm floored about the motor adjustment. Yeah, I suppose I'll need to be quiet on that score.

-Rich

#45 Mary B

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:22 PM

Many plastics cut well with a laser, Acrylic, ABS are 2 I can think of right away.

#46 ADBjester

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:18 AM

There are a lot of us who don't have free time to play with mounts. Sending it off to get the job done right, by folks who know what they are doing is a good investment.
Phil


:ubetcha:
That is great advice if you consider the expertise a guy like Ed has developed doing the different types of mounts he has hypertuned. If you are not comfortable the with type of work or do not have the time and or tools, the expense of shipping the mount off to an expert to do the work is a wise choice and will save you some angst! Well worth the extra $ IMHO.


I have heard of Ed for only a month or so, read extensively of him only for a week or so.... and have never ONCE heard a negative word said, not so much as a "I thought it would be better than this...."

That's why, after a 10 minute phone conversation with him on Friday in which he was most gracious, and most knowledgeable, I boxed up my CGEM and will ship it to him on Monday for a hypertune and RA gear upgrade. I've sunk many thousands into hardware and software (much of it frivolously or via ignorance), but of all $500+ purchases I've made in astronomy, this is one I have zero doubt is worth it.

Seldom do you find someone with that sort of reputation, willing to sell his long experience for so little. I'm mechanically inclined, but have few tools, and don't trust myself not to break things. Thus, I trust Ed implicitly to improve my mount, based on his reputation.

I will report back the good and bad in 3-4 weeks (depending on the weather), but I'd be flabbergasted if I had anything negative to say.

For "before" pics, see my post in "Beginning Astrophotography" under the thread "Is this gear binding or a PEC/PHD feud".

After pics will be posted as well.

Jester

#47 jason_milani

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 10:54 PM

I've only communicated with Ed via e-mail but he seems like a genuine individual. I just ordered a Hypertune deluxe kit from him for my CGEM and he shipped it the same day (should be here tomorrow). The weather stinks so i'll have a project to do this week. ;)

#48 jp071848

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:08 AM


The CGE is in many respects and easier mount to work on since it is a better design in most respects. The tough part is getting the worm gear alignment right since it does not have a good system for that. I have the filming done for a video but I haven't had the time to do the editing yet. Another thing on my long list of things to do. I'm also working on a cable upgrade for it with the prototypes being manufactured right now.


My experience bears out Ed's CGE comments exactly. I bought a late-model used CGE last year, trading in a CGE Pro. The CGE worked fine but felt rough and unhappy, though this is based solely on qualitative rather than quantitative criteria. Being an inveterate tinker and tool wonk, I dove right in and started a self-hypertune, using documents and videos available here and from the CGE Yahoo group. Ed's service appears to be fantastic, and had I been in the same country as Ed, I would have sent it to him rather than attempting it myself (... and Ed, I'll be buying that video when it's available). The shipping and trans-border hassles, however, made it not a viable solution for me.

In tearing down and re-building the mount, I discovered a number of nasty surprises courtesy of Celestron and their poor manufacturing and assembly, and I ended up with a much better feeling and sounding mount. Though I can't quantitatively prove it, I'm sure it performs better than before. I found that the CGE is very simple to work on, and it is hard to have anything go very wrong to the point where you'd need Ed's adult intervention. That being said, I had to disassemble the RA axis at least twice, and the DEC axis more times than I can remember, to really NAIL IT. To paraphrase Ed, it's easy to get it OK, very tough to get it very good. Now that I can dis- and re-assemble it in my sleep with my eyes closed, I am now able to dial it in very well, and am very happy with how it moves, sounds and performs. If I suffer any performance issues or failures in the future, I won't hesitate to strip it down to try and repair it myself

Jeff






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