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12.5mm Ortho - Why buy Baader Genuine Ortho?

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#1 kepheus

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 12:13 PM

Hey there!

I just plan to buy my first orthoscopic eyepiece...

There are two candidates for me:
University Optics H.D. Abbe Orthoscopics
Baader Planetarium Genuine Ortho

The Genuine Ortho is priced slightly higher than the UO.

So why should I buy the Baader instead of the UO?

Please don't take care of the free shipping at telescopes.com.
If I would select the Baader, then I would buy it here in Germany anyway.
So, an UO Ortho shipped overseas or a local bought Baader will result in same costs for me.

Is there any reason to go with the Baader?

So far, all reports I took a look at state, that both EPs might be the same. Here is a thread from the Stargazers-Lounge for example.
An information I got from a german astronomy board is that the UO Ortho features a locknut, which can't be found at Baader's Genuine Ortho.

Regards, Brend.

#2 sailor70623

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 02:48 PM

I have been told they are the same. I have looked through the UO HD and it is a bit better than the Abbe Ortho (valcano top) but I like the valcano tops better. They just feel like they have more ER. I also have no ambient light problems where I observe. At 12.5mm ER isn't that bad. At 6mm or shorter, the ER is tight. Some start finding the ER tight at 9mm.

#3 helpwanted

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 03:32 PM

same eyepiece, have them both.

#4 kepheus

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 03:41 PM

Hi Greg.

I know about the difference in eye-relief.
I read some CN articles by Tom Trusock and Bill Paolini who have compared the volcano tops to the H.D. Orthos.

The ER of the 12.5mm H.D. will still be comfortable enough I guess.
Furthermore I will use the 12.5mm with a 2.8x Klee-barlow in a zoom-modification. The barlow-lens will increase the already fair eye-relief a little bit.
The zoom-modification will result in a 3.5mm to 5.5mm variable focal lengths EP. I will be able to enjoy the longer ER of the 12.5mm while using focal lenghts around 5mm. I have been told, that the ER will not vary significantly while zooming the barlow from factors like 2.3x to 4x. The only disadvantage is one more lens in the optical chain.

I'm still interested in more comments on my first post in this thread.

Regards,
Brend.

#5 kepheus

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 03:42 PM

Thanks David!

#6 Mark9473

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 03:55 PM

I'm using my 12.5 mm BGO with a 2x barlow and the eye relief is just fine in that configuration. Can't go wrong with this.

#7 sixela

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:05 PM

Same eyepiece (even same packaging), different coatings. But to tell you exactly which ones are better is impossible. You'll find just as many reviews that think the Baader is better as reviews that think the UO HD is better, although they all agree that they're better than the volcano tops.


I usually buy BGOs in Germany, but that's because anything to do with warranty or returns is a lot easier.

#8 MrJones

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:14 PM

The difference is about $1. UO HD is $89.95 + $8.95 shipping, BGO is $99 w/ free shipping lots of places.

Oops I see that might not be the case for you. Despite the $1 more for me I went for the Baader after reading that some people had the UO lettering falling off as well as the possibility that the Baader coatings are different and better blackened inside (still don't know about those). Worth $1 for me just in case.

#9 BillStar

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:48 PM

I prefer the UO volcano top to the HD.

But you're entitled to my opinion.

:)

#10 sixela

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:50 PM

More comfortable, but not as good.

#11 kepheus

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 05:17 PM

Hi Alexis and Bill.

I guess the ER of the 12.5mm focal lenght EP is quite fair enough for my needs. When used with the Klee-barlow-ZoomSet it will get even more comfortable I presume.
So I don't have to base my decision on the eye-reliefs or required eye-positioning.

The difference is about $1. UO HD is $89.95 + $8.95 shipping, BGO is $99 w/ free shipping lots of places.

Hi MrJones.
I already noticed, that the real difference is about $1. My first thought was, that UO probably wants to show a lower price by presenting $89.95 compared to the BGO's $99.
But as a German I will have to pay the same amount of money for either EP. So that fact will be of no matter for my decision.

Same eyepiece (even same packaging), different coatings.

...as well as the possibility that the Baader coatings are different and better blackened inside (still don't know about those).

Until now I did not read any report that states that the coatings might be different.


The only difference I noticed from product pictures and reviews I read is the following:

The UO product description presents the H.D. Orthos as fully multi-coated eyepieces. It's lettered on the EP's body as well.
Baader Planetarium doesn't use the phrase "fully multi-coated" but talks about "Phantom Multi-Coatings". It's lettered on the EP's body, too.

Perhaps the only difference between both versions might just be a lettered word (?)

I'm using my 12.5 mm BGO with a 2x barlow and the eye relief is just fine in that configuration. Can't go wrong with this.

Thanks Mark! Good to know.

Regards.

#12 bgavin

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 05:45 PM

OP, how is the Baader going to work on your f/5 Dob?
I'm in learning-mode, but my research leads me to believe the BGO edge sharpness will deteriorate somewhat with the large aperture.

My interest is the 9mm BGO.
I am concerned about soft performance in my f/4.7 XT10.

#13 kepheus

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 05:52 PM

...after reading that some people had the UO lettering falling off..

In that linked CN-review Bill Paolini marked the build quality of the Baader Genuine Orthos as "A*".
He defined "A*" as following:

As a side note, the eyepieces in the table which are shown with an asterisk (*) next to their ranking indicates that these eyepieces had portions or all of the lettering and graphics on the housing silk-screened and/or painted. This of course will mean that over time one can expect the lettering to eventually wear off with repeated use and contact. While I did not think this was sufficient to lessen their build quality rating, I thought it was valuable to note for prospective purchasers of these eyepieces as it may impact a personal preference.


#
#
#

OP, how is the Baader going to work on your f/5 Dob?
I'm in learning-mode, but my research leads me to believe the BGO edge sharpness will deteriorate somewhat with the large aperture.

My interest is the 9mm BGO.
I am concerned about soft performance in my f/4.7 XT10.


Hi bgavin!

Some minutes ago the same question was asked by François on that thread.

I will just copy my comment on his question:

Would the orthos perform well in a f/5 dob?

Hello François.
Bill Paolini tested Orthos in an Orion XT10 f/4.7 dob. The review can be found here.
I myself am interested in more opinions on François question as well.

Regards.

#14 sixela

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 05:53 PM

Perhaps the only difference between both versions might just be a lettered word (?)


The grazing angle colour of the coatings is very different,so it's not just the lettering. The baffling etc. within the eyepiece, though, looks identical.

#15 sixela

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 05:54 PM

Don't be concerned about soft edges in your f/4.7 XT10.

#16 kepheus

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 06:17 PM

The grazing angle colour of the coatings is very different,so it's not just the lettering.


Hi Alexis.
You are the first one who tells me that. Very interesting! All reviews I read state the coatings to look exactly the same.
I also noticed your fist comment where you said, that it's not clear which EP to favour anyway.

Are there any more comments on the possible difference in coatings? Some links to reviews/comparisons would be very nice. Even when there will be no difference in performance it would be just fine to learn more about it.

#17 Jim Rosenstock

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 06:24 PM

The potential differences are so very small, it makes sense to just buy whichever is easiest. Probably, buying locally makes the most sense.

Cheers,

Jim

#18 kepheus

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 06:33 PM

Hi Jim.
The content of this conversation is quite hypothetical of course. But whenever I want to buy accessoires for my dob, I want to learn nearly everything about the product and it's competitors. It's just a kind of hobby for cloudy nights and interesting to me.

FMC or "phantom multi coated":
A german dealer describes the BGO to be fully multi-coated. In the german product description he states it literally. In the english product description he uses the words -"Phantom" Full Multi-Coating- as a heading.

#19 Scott99

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 06:52 PM

has anyone mentioned the safety groove? The Baader does not have it, if you hate them like me that is a big factor

#20 sixela

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 07:28 PM

"Phantom" is just a trademark for Baader's own pick of matched multicoatings for the eyepieces.






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