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Need Help Celestron C6-SGT Add Guide Scope

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#1 briphenix

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 12:26 AM

First post new to site and astrophotography, i have a Celestron C6-SGT telescope looking to add a guidescope, from emailing a few sites about the scope and looking for the best way to add a guidescope, it seems a Losmandy V type side by side mount is the best way to go, i was more looking for a top mount guidescope and mount to add but can't locate a dovetail or mount that would work,doesn't appear to have been designed for a top mount scope and it doesn't seem the manufacturer or other stores sites have any good suggestions. would anyone have any experience with this scope and adding a guidescope to it. if this has been covered somewhere else my apologies i've looked for numerous hours how i can set this up and have not found any good ideas.

#2 Falcon-

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 12:59 AM

Welcome to Cloudy Nights!

Have you considered a KWIQ Guider package or a home-made 50mm finderscope guidescope? I use a 50mm finder-guider myself and find it works very well. It also has the advantage of not adding much weight (an important thing when using the CG-5 mount).

#3 briphenix

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 01:11 AM

i don't see how the KWIQ Guider Package is mounted, does it replace the existing finder scope or would it need an additional mounting bar? Thanks for the assistance.

#4 Falcon-

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 01:52 AM

It mounts the same way a normal finder scope mounts, directly to the scope.

The ideal way to use a finder-guider is to simply swap back and forth between the normal finder scope and the finder-guider as needed using the same mount point on the telescope. This requires using a "quick release bracket" for the finderscope's base. From looking at Celestron's website for the C6-SGT package it *looks* like their included finder does not use a quick release bracket.... annoying. :(

If you look at the KWIQ guider package you will see they have three options for the mount rings, two of those are what I am talking about. One is the Vixen type finderscope bracket and the other is the Anatares DTB50 type finderscope bracket. If you look at the pictures you will see there is a base that screws on to the mount, and a "foot" that slides into the base (this is particularly obvious with the Vixen type).

What I would do is retire the 30mm finder that came with the scope, get a KWIQ-Guider with either the Vixen or Anatares DTB50 type brackets, and then also purchase a regular 50mm finder scope at the same time that uses the same base. That way you will be able to do that easy swap back and forth between just a visual finder and a finder guider.

#5 Falcon-

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 02:05 AM

ok... perhaps rather then saying "What I would do" is to tell you what I actually *DID*.

For my own scope I purchased a used 50mm finderscope from the classifieds section here on cloudy nights, purchased a used Orion Starshoot Autoguider from Astromart (the Starshoot Autoguider is the same as the QHY5 that comes with the KWIQ guider), then used some standard plumbing bits and a few bolts to convert the 50mm finder into a guide scope. My original finder was a 50mm finder so I re-used it's rings to mount my guide scope.

My setup is not as well made as the KWIQ-Guider, but it does the same job and has worked very well for me, if you like DIY projects the home-made finder guider saves you a *little* bit of money, but buying the professionally made KWIQ-Guider certainly will provide a clean, solid solution. The attached (rather poor quality) image shows my finder-guider mounted and ready to do it's job.

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#6 mclewis1

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 08:47 AM

Ideally I wouldn't mess with the finder mounting point, if you have the budget I would go with the Vixen saddle base and mount it as in the picture below (my home made version of the KWIQ product).

The benefits of this type of mounting are:
No need to keep aligning the finder scope
More robust mounting, less chance of it loosening during an imaging session
Much more control over fore and aft balance

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#7 CarolG

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:05 AM

I recently modified my stock Celestron 50mm finderscope so I could use my Orion SSAG. This CN Thread was most helpful. I didn't use any fancy tools-just a hacksaw and the dremel. It wasn't a difficult DIY project.

#8 briphenix

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:29 AM

Thanks all this is some good information. very informative.

#9 briphenix

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:53 AM

Mark do you know what the parts names or numbers are you used to attach the 50mm to the bottom of your scope?

#10 mclewis1

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 12:13 PM

With my particular setup I used a ring set that came off of a 50mm finder scope (from APM in Germany), I simply unbolted the quick release dovetail from the base. There are many other options from Stellarvue or Losmandy (or others) for those types of rings (that are mounted on a single plate). I think the rings are 65mm in diameter or so.

The saddle is a V type from Losmandy, there are many examples of these. I think Losmandy and ADM have the best saddles but you can certainly save some money and use less expensive ones from folks like Scopestuff.

Very simple to do, I simply drilled and tapped for a couple of bolts ... but I also noticed that KW Telescope has the same setup already built up for the KWIQ ... for a good price.

#11 Falcon-

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 01:38 PM

Mark do you know what the parts names or numbers are you used to attach the 50mm to the bottom of your scope?


If you have enough room on your C6 to do what Mark did (and it is a good idea if you can for balance reasons) then the "ADM Rings" mount option for the KWIQ-Guider would do the same thing. :)

Or, if you want to do a DIY 50mm finder-guider then you can purchase those rings directly from ADM.

#12 briphenix

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 07:32 PM

does anyone think there is a downfall to using a side by side mount with 2 scopes?

#13 mclewis1

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 09:08 PM

SbS is a bit more complicated to balance. With relatively light weight scopes like the C6 or a small refractor and a good solid SbS setup there is virtually no chance of flexure ... but if you build your own from lighter weight bars you may have problems. It does add some weight, and that isn't welcome when your trying to keep all extra weight on a mount down.

SbS is best suited for when you want the flexibility of being able to swap scopes at will.

#14 Falcon-

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 09:52 PM

Given that you seem to plan to use your CG-5 mount I think the real potential disadvantage of side-by-side is the added weight. A general rule is that for imaging you want to keep your total load at or below 50% of the rated maximum of your mount. So for the CG-5 with it's rated max of 35lb you should try and keep weight down to below 17.5lb. I have to admit that my own imaging rig is probably 20lb or a bit more, so you can see that is not a hard-and-fast rule, but it is easier to get good tracking out of the mount if you keep the load light.

Do you have any other telescopes then your C6 that you hope to also use for imaging or as a guide scope?

#15 briphenix

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:20 PM

right now i'm trying to figure out what kind of scope i can get as a guide scope, doesn't seem to be very easy to find a scope that i can match the hardware with, without make some modifications. with the C6 it seems there is only going to be about 6" of space under the tube to hang a guide scope and most of the short tubes i've seen are about 12-15" long, thinking about getting a longer dovetail for my main tube to sit on to give the extra length needed to put a guide scope underneath. good or bad idea?

#16 briphenix

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:28 PM

i thought this might be a good solution but i can't really see anyway to mount this on my system, all in one orion
http://www.telescope...roduct_id=24770

#17 Falcon-

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:01 PM

Regarding the Orion autoguider package. I personally think the KWIQ Guider is a better option. I have heard people complain about flex in the ST80's focuser, the ST80 is heavier, there is no particularly easy way to mount it to the C6, and the guide camera that it comes with is the same as that with the KWIQ guider.

6" is not a lot of space. I think it can be managed with a 50mm finder-guider like the KWIQ guider though.

#18 briphenix

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:02 PM

how about an off axis guider? i read that you lose some light when you do this but is it significant enough to cause problems with photographing? i really appreciate everyones help and patience with all my questions.

#19 Falcon-

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:04 PM

ahh - I forgot about an OAG (off axis guider). An OAG is certainly a possibility. It should not cause any light loss for the main imaging camera, but the guide camera will have a much dimmer and much smaller view of the sky. That can mean it is harder to find a guide-star, but so long as you do find that guide star an OAG would work fine.






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