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#1 MAURITS

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 05:30 PM

Are there people who know something about the 10Micron GM 1000 HPS mount?

Is it already available?

Thanks :waytogo:

#2 MAURITS

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:40 AM

Are there users who have the 10MICRON GM 2000 QCI?
Is this a good mount for a 6" scope?

#3 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:29 AM

Maurits,
I have the GM2000 QCI.

I can tell you that it is a superb mount. Certainly the best I have tried, because of it's software so advanced, which receives regular updates with new functions. Mechanically it is superb as well.
A 6" will not even be felt by the GM2000.
Look at what Rolf Geissinger is doing with it and a Planewave 12.5" from a balcony. (www.stern-fan.de)

Can't write much now, but will write more later on why I say it is superb.

E.

#4 HowardK

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 05:58 AM

I am very keen to buy one of the GM2000 mounts and would love to hear what users have to say about them

#5 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 06:43 AM

Hello again.

As I was saying the 10Micron mounts (GM2000QCI/HPS, GM4000, and in a few mounts GM1000HPS) are seriously superb.
I have the version with the Centaurus tripod in Carbon Fiber, which saves some weight.
Mechanically, there not much to say, beside that they are machined to the highest standards.
Software-wise they are one of the most advanced (if not the most advanced) mounts. I had a Tak Em200 and a Tak Em400 before getting the Gm2000QCI, and I really don't miss the Taks, which are superb in their own way.

The mount uses belt drive system, and consequently has no backlash. Motors are AC Servo Brushless.

Setup is very easy and fast.
I do not have the optional polar scope, because it is not needed. I use it's Polar Alignment routine. I choose the "3 Stars Alignment" routine and I get within 1 arcmin of the Pole, normally. With that, I can image for 5 min UNguideded at 980mm focal length (TEC140).
You can of course use as many stars (up to 25) as you want to refine the Polar Alignment. So, you can practically get a perfect polar alignment.
Moreover, the software will calculate the Orthogonality error between the main imaging scope and the guidescope, and correct for it.
By using the athmospheric pressure, temperature, and altitude, it will also correct for athmospheric refraction.
You can imagine what kind of guiding you can get with these mounts. (usually I have errors of 0.03-0.05 pixels with a 3 star alignment routine, so I don't even need to guide)
The keypad also has a T-Point like software in it. You can build a pointing model and save it internally.

The mount has a LAN port, which you can use to connect it to your laptop. No need for Serial to USB adapters, finally. The Kaypad has its own IP Address. So, if you have an observatory, you can access the mount remotely, without needing to have a planetarium program (with which of course they are compatible, by using either the LX200 or the APGTO protocols)

The mount can go up to 20deg/sec of slewing and tracking speed. Yep, 20degress per seconds. Tracking satellites is super easy. The mount waits for the satellite (if it is below the horizon) 5 deg below the horizon line, and starts beeping slow when the satellites is 1 minute away from being visible. 10 seconds before, the beeps become faster, and it will start tracking it as it become visible. There is usually no need to refine the pointing, if it was done correctly, but you can use the Keypad to adjust and center the satellite, and the mount will calculate the new track based on the correction you made in the keypad while tracking it for the first few seconds.

Look here for another review of it: http://www.cloudynig...hp?item_id=1704

For any other questions, please feel free to ask. :)

E.

PS: The GM1000HPS will be available soon, I hear. Within 6 months.

#6 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 07:07 AM

Hello,

I've had a 10Micron GM2000 & GM4000. Both Mounts are a desaster !!!!
They have big issues with autoguiding especially correction in the DEC Axis. With the GM 4000 Autoguiding was horror. I would never ever buy a 10 Micron.

Only my 2 Cents

Immo

#7 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 07:47 AM

Immo,
that is strange to hear. Have you talked with Ivan, explaining what the problem is?

E.

#8 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 07:56 AM

Hi Emanuel,

I was in the Beta Tester Group with some others (R. Geisinger, S. Voltmer etc.). We had all the same Problems. That was the reason for the big sofwareupgrade (cause it's a software problem, mechanics are ok). Also the reason for the Encoders. But if you can't manage the first closed loop, I don't know, how it shoul work with two. I think, thats the reason, why they have advertised the Encoder upgrade long time ago ant it is still not available.

Regards

Immo

#9 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:07 AM

Oh, I see. Well, I guess that problem has been taken care of a long while ago, because I don't know anyone that is having that problem these days. Actually I have talked with Rolf many times, and he recommended the Gm2000 to me as well, as a superb mount. :)
He is very happy with his.
Dirk Bautzmann has one as well, and he told me he is very happy with it.

I think it is normal to have problems while beta testing a mount. As long as the problems are corrected when the mount comes out of beta testing.

You can check here Dirk's GM2000 QCI PE (with PEC OFF):
http://www.astro-fot...usruestung.html
Scroll down to see the setup and the PE graph. 3.52 arcsec Peak-to-Peak unguided with an RMS of 1.01



#10 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:16 AM

Emanuel,

this problem is up to Date.
Dirk Bautzmann had the same issues. He sold his GM2000 a short time after he has got it. Now he has a ASA DDM 85. Dirk has had a Losmandy Titan before he had sold it to buy a GM2000, cause he has heard only good things about this mount. But he declaired the same guiding issues and he said, that he had much better results with the Titan.

Look, I was one of the first, who reported those issues and was also one of the BETA Testers for the actual Softwareupgrade. The main reason for that, was the guiding Problem. As long as I was a 10Micron owner and a Beta Tester they have not solved the main problems. But made a lot of new things instaed solving the realy big problems. But this is the decision from 10 Micron. Those Mounts and the big problems with them was the main reason for us, to give up our remote observatory in Verclause.

Regards

Immo

#11 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:21 AM

Immo,

ok. I don't have that problem, and neither all the people that are using the mounts here in Italy.
As I said, I think the problem you were having while Beta Testing the mount, has been fully resolved, as I didn't even know about it.

#12 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:25 AM

Emaluel,

as I mentioned, it is no mechanical problem. So the PE curve is very good and smooth. But the guiding issues are significant. We had guiding peaks at both mounts GM4000 & GM 2000 from 2" to 5"

And the problems are still there - in the old and the beta software.

Immo

#13 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:31 AM

Immo,

thank you for your input. I will investigate with Ivan (owner) on this problem, as I have never heard about it from anyone else (Rolf Geiss, Dirk etc), and neither from the person who reviewed it in Swizterland.

#14 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:34 AM

Emanuel,

then you have better Mounts for the iatalian market ;-)
The problems has nothing to do with beta software, cause the reason to change so much in the software where those issues before , in the old and tested software. I know only people, who have problems, but no one would tell here in a public forum. If your GM 2000 is making no problems - congratulations !

But I cant confirm that by my own experiences.

Immo

#15 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:37 AM

Emanuel,

Rolf was also in the Beta Tester group and he reported about the problems. I know Dirk very well and he sold his GM2000 because of that problems - you can believe me :-)


Immo

#16 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:36 AM

I believe you Immo. There might have been some problems in the beta test software, but I also believe Rolf's pictures on his website. :) he got an Apod for his IC1396 not too long ago. :)
I see no problems in his pictures with guiding.

#17 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:51 AM

Emanuel,

the problems are not from the BETA softwate it was still in the older versions. The main reason to come out with this big upgrade was to solve those problems. But it didn't. So they decided to bring out a Encoder solution. The Reason is, they have no idea, what causes those problems. From my point of view, the reason is a buggy software to translate the guider signals into servo signals. That is not realy trivial job. But there is only one person responsible for the IT - solutions....

Emanuel, I think you are long enough a Astrophotographer. You know, that a APOD or every pic which is not a full resolution RAW frame sais nothing about the quality from the Equipment. Rolfs Apod is done with a TEC 140 @ 980mm focal length. It is also a narrowband image. You can't evaluate guiding or tracking issues with pics like this.

Immo

P.S. For me it is no problem, if you say 10Micron's are the best Mounts still out there, but as I said, my experiences say something completly different. And as I also mentioned, I'm not alone ;-)

#18 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:57 AM

That's ok, Immo.
I guess to each his own. I have never heard of these guiding problems anywhere. In fact here's a website with satisfied customers:
http://www.10micron.de/

Anyway. Let's close this discussion otherwise it will go on forever.
:)

#19 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:59 AM

Emanuel,

I think that is the only solution for both of us
to come out of the "...if then ... Goto..," loop :-))))

Regards

Immo

#20 HowardK

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 01:54 PM

Are you really telling me thst a mount costing 11000 euros and that has been in production for a number of years cannot function with an auto guider?

I will be contacting the company in the morning referring them to darkforce's comments and if unfounded will be referring these very harmful comments to the administrator and owner of cloudy nights...these type of comments an destroy a company and i have not heard of this from any other owner before

#21 darkforce

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:03 PM

Howard,

do what you want to do. It's the truth & sometimes it's hard to believe.
The best way to find it out is, buy a 10Micron and test it by yourself.

CS

Immo

#22 Alph

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:32 PM

From my point of view, the reason is a buggy software to translate the guider signals into servo signals. That is not realy trivial job.


This sounds very odd. Even fairly cheap mounts can handle guider commands correctly. Are you telling us that the 10Micron mount can’t track at a specified or desired rate? Is guiding done via the ST4 port or some other port?

#23 Andrea.Moroni

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:46 PM

Hi Emanuele,
looks like this german boy has something personal against 10micron.
Maybe he is right but the style and the fury are very suspicious to me.

#24 Emanuele

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:00 PM

I don't think there's anything to add to this thread, beside just going to Stern-fan.de website and look at the pictures Rolf is taking with a Planewave 12.5". and that is just one example.
Another example is Danilo Pivato pictures in the CCD forums.
I am guiding at 0.25X with my Lodestar through the ST4 port and usually take 20min subs at 1000mm of focal length without problems.
Aggressiveness is set to 1 in both X and Y axis.

Anyway, I am not going say anything more about this. Seems not worth it at this point.

#25 HowardK

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:29 PM

It might not be "worth it" to you Emanuele but I am about to make a bank transfer for 14000 euros for this mount...which I am now being told cannot track with a guider...and I would imagine there are others equally alarmed by what Immo has to report..............the people in Italy will have to report on this..........this is as serious as it gets for a high end mount to be completely useless at guiding is a distinct breach of every retail sales law I know of...a product has to be fit for purpose..I would like to hear from others who cannot guide with their GM2000...........a report can then be made and class actions against the company can be initiated if this is indeed the case.............I will not let 10 Micron make and sell a mount that cannot guide






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