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#126 EFT

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:05 PM

There has been no change to the mount specifications so those two pages listing the capacity as 35kg are incorrect.

#127 orion69

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 05:28 AM

Thx

#128 TerraPassenger

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:54 AM

I've got a couple of questions for 10 Micron mount owners. (I'm thinking about getting a GM1000HPS) as follows:

1) Are you using 10 Micron's Perseus software? If so, do you like it? If not, what software are you using?

2) Does anyone have experience with the 10 Micron Aries Tripod?

#129 Per Frejvall

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:43 AM

Hi Passenger!

Question 1...
Nope. Package still unopened. I use MaximDL, Nebulosity 3, FocusMax, ACP and CCD Autopilot. Occasionally I use Cartes du Ciel and Stellarium for planning, usually not connected to the scope (works fine, though).

2
I have the Arcturus tripod. It is extremely steady :)

/per

#130 TerraPassenger

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:09 PM

One more question... The GM1000HPS can be ordered with "polar laser pointer support." What's included if I purchase this? The user manual doesn't cover this option and I can't find any information about it on the Internet.

Thanks.

Dave

#131 Tonk

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 04:22 AM

You really don't need a polar laser pointer for the 1000HPS.

The built in polar alignment procedure is based off building a regular multi-star pointing model and does not require a clear view of the Polaris region at all. The procedure is very accurate and reproducable.

My experiments doing multiple polar aligns (from scratch each time as a reproducability test) consistently got me within 15 arc seconds of true pole after 3 iterations of the model-building/polar-aligning routines. This took roughly 20-30 minutes for each go and doing it manually with a astrometric eyepiece (with illumated reticule cross-hairs) centering 12 - 15 nominated stars spread over the visible sky (you can go up to 100 stars in the model - good for permanent setups but takes longer to complete by hand).

If you have the right software (plate solving stuff etc), Per Frejvall has writen a very nice graphical utility that totally automates the pointing model building part (so does all steps bar the necessary alt/az knob adjustments for the polar align step)

I guess if you have a view of Polaris a laser pointer gets the rough(er) alignment started off without hassle. Notably the 1000HPS come with no provision to fit a polar scope.

(as a side note I had a polar scope fitted on my GM-8 but once I got the Gemini controller I had no real use for the Polar scope as the Gemini PAC polar align routine did the job. A rough starting align using a compass was all that was needed - YMMD)

Hope this helps

#132 Art43

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:13 PM

Tonk,

By chance do you have images taken with use of your 10 Micron GM 1000 HPS.

Thank you


Art

#133 EFT

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:15 PM

One more question... The GM1000HPS can be ordered with "polar laser pointer support." What's included if I purchase this? The user manual doesn't cover this option and I can't find any information about it on the Internet.

Thanks.

Dave


Posted Image
Posted Image

Not strictly necessary, but nice if you already have a GLP.

#134 Tonk

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 05:02 AM

By chance do you have images taken with use of your 10 Micron GM 1000 HPS.


Sure - these samples are on Astrobin. Tracking times were chosen for the targets I was shooting. I.e. fast moving very bright comets like Lovejoy couldn't be pushed to far, while comet Lemmon was so slow moving (and dim) I could use 10 minute subs. All are unguided.

http://astrob.in/full/65740/0/ 4 min subs
http://astrob.in/full/67937/0/ 8 min subs
http://astrob.in/full/67940/0/ 10 min subs
http://astrob.in/full/68315/0/ 5 min subs

The 10 min subs are just starting to show a hint of non-roundness. However I shot that image (and the 8 minute sample) before I discovered the dual-tracking mode that works to reduce the small drift in both RA and DEC I had due to polar mis-align. I need to have another go at 10 minutes to see how dual-tracking faires. The 4 and 5 minutes samples had dual-tracking mode enabled.

#135 Per Frejvall

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:24 PM

Those shots are excellent, Tonk!
/per

#136 TerraPassenger

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:12 PM

Thanks for the responses.

How long does it take to set up the GM1000HPS in the field - at a location you've never been to before - in preparation for astrophotography? If it makes any difference for your answer, I would be using a laptop and would center stars by looking at the laptop display.

#137 Tonk

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:05 PM

How long does it take to set up the GM1000HPS in the field


Per hopefully will help re commenting on his automated software for building pointing models as this speeds things up. However I can help by commenting on the long winded way using an astrometric eyepiece for star centering.

OK as long as you had a solid base for the tripod fixed up I have been able to get fully set up within twilight time - so that 40 to 60 minutes tops. I can actually do this routinely between 20 - 30 minutes now I've had practice. This includes balancing, building a 12 - 15 star model followed with the polar align procedure and repeating this 3 times if needed. The mount estimates the pointing accuracy and polar misalignment off the pointing model. If you get polar alignment within 20" then you are good to go. Turn on dual tracking. Also add a barometer to your kit and enter the barometric pressure and site altitude if your target is below 30 degrees alt to get differential tracking accurate as possible

I will say the setup method is very similar to using a Losmandy mount and Gemini controller and I had 10 years experience with that system - so I was nearly up to speed at the outset - main thing was learning a new handset/menu layout and slightly different function terminology but that wasn't too hard.

My biggest puzzle at first was working out how to sync to a star (just a long hold on the enter key) and where PEC training was (the latter does not exist it has APEC which is totally automatic)

Those shots are excellent, Tonk!


Thanks Per - gives me confidence that the mount was worth it :)

#138 Art43

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 12:41 AM

Thanks for posting the URL's to the images. These have been very helpful as I review mounts. I am considering a new portable mount. With none of the frames guided, I am stunned at the 10 Micron performance.

Mr. Frevjall also had some images I reviewed. There were a different type of object imaged, but with the same round star, beautiful results. There are also small galaxies visible in the Comet LoveJoy image.

I appreciate you taking the time to share some of your images with the mount.

A

#139 famax

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 12:22 PM

Just to add my experience from late night about quick polar align.
In juste one pass (3star align +polar correction , about 10minutes job)
i gave me 15" polar misalignement, verified with a PE measurment gave 6" dec drift in almost 50 minutes.
Pretty good....

#140 GIR

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 12:32 PM

Just to add my experience from late night about quick polar align.
In juste one pass (3star align +polar correction , about 10minutes job)
i gave me 15" polar misalignement, verified with a PE measurment gave 6" dec drift in almost 50 minutes.
Pretty good....


How do you know it's 15" (both RA and DE) if you don't verify it with another proper plate solve set ? Just wondering... ;)

#141 famax

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 01:26 PM

Yep gir you are right, you have to do another 3 star pointing to verify your polar correction.
But as you know, automatic pointing and solving is just a question of seconds in time (typical cycle time for one plate solve is for my setup :
-slew to a star (or any sky place) between 1s to 15 sec , depend of the travel)
-acquire frame 2s
-plate solve 1s
so for three star it is 1 minute maximum.


anyway, the question was does these automatic routines are
almost as precise as they claim, because reading 15" of pa error on the hand pad is a thing, but reallity can differs.

In that exemple it is proven that it works really good.

To be repeated to avoid the "by luck" factor.

#142 GIR

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 02:10 PM

I know it's very fast to do another 3-star set, was just wondering why you didn't mention it.

Still have some problems visualizing how you hit 15" with one go...

You set up your mount by eye and point it as close to Polaris as possible(no laser involved). Then you do the 3-star which will give you values how much RA and DE axis are off from target and should be moved. The result will be way off however well you've set up the mount/scope.
After that you manually turn RA and DE adjustment knots and get the 15" error to both RA and DE axis. Something that is VERY challenging to do even with several iterations. And all this with a Newton scope.
I wouldn't call it luck, it's a miracle ;)

#143 Per Frejvall

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 02:29 PM

I usually get within half a minute, if not after one iteration so definitely after two. If the rig is stable it works.

My procedure is to do the first adjustment with three points in the model, and then run a new model with perhaps 15 or 20 points. If that reports below a minute of polar error I let it go, otherwise I do the adjustment and start a full model with at least 35 points. If no adjustment is necessary I just add another 25 points to the model.

The mount firmware expects you to clear the model after you touch the knobs, so there is always one extra run after you have adjusted.

Currently running a model in Provence on my GM2000HPS:

Posted Image

#144 famax

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 02:35 PM

So to tell precisely what is done :
-Wood pier is setup thanks to a compas
-Mount setup with all equipement
At this step it is important to say that the mount use to be aligned the night before, at a same place, but dismounted and reset for this night.
-So once the mount is on the wood pier, it is no very far from polar align : first three stars befor PA correction is
30' error.
-So i proceed for PA correction with centering the star on the CCD thanks to ALT/AZ correction.
-another 3 plate solve (that i forgot to mention as you pointed, gir) give you an estimate of your corrected PA error.

I agree that 15" seems very tight for a one run , but the 6"dec drift during 50 minute tend to prove that it isn't far from that.Or maybe there's a thing i does'nt understand ?

#145 GIR

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 02:46 PM

Per
Your example is very different from what famax was talking about, and any mount with good encoders and software should be able to do that.

P.S. ASA pointing models look even prettier ;)

#146 famax

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 02:54 PM

Impresive model per !You have now full sky access in provence !
Gir, the question is : can we trust the model/handpad assesement on the corected polar error.
From what i feel :
Evry setup has its own accuracy : at a certain precision step, the mount given you an estimate that will reamin with its own accuracy.
So for my example , the mount gives 15" , but we have to know the +/- arond this value.

I have to see if there a way to calculate the real polar error given the measured dec drift.

What is the typical PA error you have on the ASA , when
you are on the field ? something between 0" and 1 or 2' ?

#147 GIR

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:00 PM

So to tell precisely what is done :

At this step it is important to say that the mount use to be aligned the night before, at a same place, but dismounted and reset for this night.
-So once the mount is on the wood pier, it is no very far from polar align : first three stars befor PA correction is
30' error.


Quite a different story from the first one :smirk:
It would make all these 10Micron stories a lot more credible if they wouldn't change so much after a bit closer scrutiny.

#148 famax

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:02 PM

Found a page :
http://celestialwond...ftRateCalc.html

that helps :
So a 6" dec drift during 46 ' lead to a 30" error in polar align.

so twice that is reported in the hand pad.
But the model used to estimate this error is only three stars.
Still impressive.

#149 Per Frejvall

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:06 PM

Even with a large polar error the mount will track fine unguided. As long as you get it reasonably low the field rotation will be small enough.

/per

#150 famax

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

GIR ,
I don't understand, would you please precise your point of view ?
It seems that you do not accept what is described here.
It would be more constructive if you where able to discuss
with smart arguments, and not trying to bash evryone's experience about 10µ.

i remind you that you said the same thing to Tonk.
I feel like you are a bit paranoïd about that... ???


By the way my intention was to find out was kind of confidence we can put in these software PA alignement process, no matter 10µ or asa's.
I gave informations for people to dig in.
I also did ask to you what was the typical thing with asa ddm60.

But maybe i did forget that you are in an observatory, so do not Polar align a lot ?









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