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Losmandy G8 sale, I think this is a red flag

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#1 Rossmon

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:52 AM

Hi, I started an email conversation after waiting awhile for a reply(another red flag?) with someone selling a Losmandy G8 goto mount on the other site. The price seemed a little high with the Gemini II coming out.
I asked for a phone number to finish up the details of the sale and this is the reply I got from someone with almost no sales history and a complete stranger (of course!) from the opposite coast of the US. I immediately passed on the deal.

Sorry, but I do not give out my phone number.  It's in both our
interests to work out the details via email so that there is absolutely
no confusion.

#2 Midnight Dan

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 01:13 PM

Yep. That would be a red flag for me!

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#3 tonyt

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:52 PM

If I deal with a seller who has no rating I ask them to send the goods before payment - they can read my ratings to see if I'm trustworthy enough to accept the offer.

#4 Peter in Reno

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:06 PM

I don't really see an issue about not providing phone number. The seller is correct about documenting the deal or transaction using e-mails in case the seller gets screwed by the buyer. Plus I am hearing impaired and cannot communicate with a telephone and I never had issues selling my products using e-mails only.

Peter

#5 Waxing Gibbous

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:16 PM

If I deal with a seller who has no rating I ask them to send the goods before payment - they can read my ratings to see if I'm trustworthy enough to accept the offer.

I'm afraid it wouldn't matter to me if the buyer had 1000 five star ratings.
Unless I knew them personally, I would NEVER send something without being paid first and I would strongly urge others not to!
If in doubt, and you really want the gear, use a pick-up/forwarding service.

#6 bykhed

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 06:47 PM

One good test is to say "I have a friend in the area - is it OK if he comes by to check the mount in person?"

-Matt

#7 johnnyha

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:23 PM

There are a lot of G8 popping up on the market, I wouldn't worry about an overpriced one on the other side of the country. That one is priced more than a lot of used G11s! :grin: Besides his only rating is not a rating for a transaction, did you read it? :foreheadslap: Could still very well be legitimate but at that price he'll have a hard time selling it, you can get a new one with Gemini II for about $500 more.

Where you live with a little patience you should be able to buy a used one locally and eliminate all the hassles, and sellers will offer a discount for a local pickup. I've been looking at used G8s for awhile and I would never pay more than $1k and it better be perfect. :p

#8 Eddgie

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:52 PM

This is why Paypal is good. I would do it if you and the seller both have Paypal because Paypal knows where he lives, and has an anti-fraud unit.

I have taken the risk of buying a couple of things from sellers in the past that were not rated and did not have Paypal, but they were always small purchases (less than $100). $100 is not a lot of money to me, but I would still not like getting ripped off. Still, what are you going to do?

If you do anything for just about any hobby where there is an aftermarket for re-sale, the common currency is almost always Paypal, so if you think you will be doing more dealing in the future, you might consider it.

That way, if you get ripped off and have Paypal Primere, you get your money back.

I would not do this deal without Paypal Premiere though. Too much money at stake.

#9 Krish Mandal

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:05 PM

Eddgie, not to hijack the thread, but having PayPal means little to me. One of the reasons I stopped trusting PayPal back years ago is that someone from the other side of the world stole money out of my account THROUGH PayPal (about $2K), and PP refused to do anything about it because the theives were not in the US. Luckily my bank followed up and refunded my money minus $50. Things have changed for the better, but regardless, that is why I am EXTREMELY cautious with PayPal, and someone having an account means little to me since PP already burned me once and took no responsibility for their lack of security.

#10 Peter in Reno

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:22 PM

I got burned by PayPal as well. So did a friend of mine. I don't trust PayPal and because E-bay now owns PayPal, I canceled account with E-bay. E-bay also burned me as well.

Peter

#11 cbwerner

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:28 PM

EDIT: I had a more elaborate post here detailing my reasons for not trusting Paypal, and while it's all true and accurate, I've decided less is more, and it will just suffice to say that you can only trust your own due diligence to protect yourself in online transactions.

#12 sth

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 07:37 PM

Most of the problems people have with PayPal stem from ignoring the service agreement they agreed to when signing up. If you follow the rules, you'll be fine.

One thing I can't stand is when people say in their ads to "use the Personal Transfer option in PayPal, there's no fee that way." Well, that's true. But if you're using that there is also no protection for the buyer since by sending the money under the Personal tab, you're implying that it's a gift. There is ostensibly no product in PayPal's eyes. There's no way to prove it, either. Also, if you have a bunch of large dollar-amount transactions sent as Personal, you better believe PayPal is going to come sniffing around your account. Again, you just have to carefully read the rules and regulations and you'll be fine.

The moral: if you're using PayPal to buy goods online, use the proper method. The 3% is well worth the protection it affords.

#13 Rogersup

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:17 PM

Yes. Yes. Yes and yes. PayPal's not perfect but they get the job done.

I pass on any sale where the seller wants to avoid the fees. No recourse for the buyer and it speaks to the ethics of the seller: What else might they be willing to pull?


Most of the problems people have with PayPal stem from ignoring the service agreement they agreed to when signing up. If you follow the rules, you'll be fine.

One thing I can't stand is when people say in their ads to "use the Personal Transfer option in PayPal, there's no fee that way." Well, that's true. But if you're using that there is also no protection for the buyer since by sending the money under the Personal tab, you're implying that it's a gift. There is ostensibly no product in PayPal's eyes. There's no way to prove it, either. Also, if you have a bunch of large dollar-amount transactions sent as Personal, you better believe PayPal is going to come sniffing around your account. Again, you just have to carefully read the rules and regulations and you'll be fine.

The moral: if you're using PayPal to buy goods online, use the proper method. The 3% is well worth the protection it affords.



#14 bardo

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:15 AM

i personally am a bit annoyed if someone wants to talk on the phone. especially when they want to me to call them long distance when email works just fine.

#15 drksky

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 09:18 AM

But talking to the actual person can put folks' minds at ease that the person they're dealing with is real. Plus, talking to someone in person can give you a good indication of whether the person is trying to scam you.

It's a safety net.

#16 dawziecat

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 10:43 AM

Nothing wrong when a buyer for an expensive item wants to talk to the seller. Perfectly natural I'd say. I'd not want to deal with a seller that found it at all irksome.
Refusal to provide a phone number is a red flag all right . . .also simply rude IMO.

#17 JAT Observatory

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:06 AM

This is why I never end selling anything. I would never give out my phone number and I wouldn't allow some to come to the house.

#18 Struzzin

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:11 AM

I think it's certainly a red flag. I totally understand wanting to have the deal "in writing" via e-mail and I am always careful to do so. I don't just send an e-mail saying "I sent you payment", I write "I sent you payment for such and such for such and such amount etc." to create some kind of paper trail. I could kinda understand if it was a little item but when your selling a 1000 dollar item basically sight unseen other than a couple "recent" pics, it makes sense a buyer might want to speak to you on the phone. And if you want to sell your 1000 dollar item this should be no prob at all.

#19 PHampson

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:15 AM

Anytime there's anything that either the buyer or the seller aren't comfortable with, the uncomfortable party should just walk away. Doesn't make either of them wrong or rude or unreasonable; different strokes for different folks. Everyone has different motivations, fears, etc. This guy could be a crook, but he may just be naive or a little paranoid. It's not like the future of the western world depends on a deal being made.

Just my two cents worth.

Paul

#20 gillmj24

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:18 AM

I myself prefer email. I think hundreds of perfect feedback speak for themselves in my case anyway. It's up to the seller what he is comfortable with and if the buyer is not comfortable then he should find another deal. If the seller loses a sale that is his problem then, and thus maybe he will consider using the phone if someone asks nicely. Your request via email to use the phone could have seemed too demanding for his taste. There are plenty of obvious scammers to point out, the lack of phone convo is not in the same league as someone stealing pictures and asking half of what it is worth.

#21 gillmj24

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:35 AM

Oh if by other site you mean "AM" then at least they had to sign up with hopefully a non-stolen credit card. I would be quicker to label a CN classified as a scam than an AM one as the former is just a free-for-all. It is much rarer over there but it does happen so do be cautious.

#22 Asimov

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 07:56 PM

A resounding 'NO WAY' from me too. I'm all for deals to be done in writing in emails etc. It's then recorded if anything goes wrong, but the little phone call is there to provide assurance that the buyer/seller does actually exist & the deal is not bogus.

Move on to the next deal.

#23 Bachus

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 02:07 PM

So no pics at all? What about the serial number/date? With that amount is involved and the seller whats the sale they should grant the wish. Even when I sale something I offer a picture or two or whatever. It's simple business ethics especially with Astro-gear.

About Paypal, some swear by it and like a few I swear at it. A few years ago my Paypal account and identity was compromised and Paypal didn't have an answer as to how it happened. I had signed up using CC "A" and then later switched to CC "B". Somehow, someone was able to sign up with a ship to address in CA (I'm in Tennessee) with CC "A"and make about $900 in purchases thru E-Bay before the CC Company notified us via a "Red Flag" we put in. Paypal didn't catch it at all.

I've lost a few deals in both buys and sells because of not having Paypal. I offer and accept M.O, checks and cash and feedback is very important to me. I hardly look at E-Bay anymore and mostly buy off Amazon which I haven't had a single issue in three years.

#24 Rossmon

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 02:58 AM

Wow, I forgot to mark this as a favorIte and I'm amazed at all the replies!,
Well, I got burned by paypal a long time ago for $40. They offered no recourse although they said they did at the time. A phone # does provide verification and comfort especially for an expensive purchase. Someone wanting to sell something, especially with 0 ratings should be prepared to well, communicate!!
I also thought it was overpriced of course and offered less. Well I think it will be there until lowered or the economy starts to ramp up.
Me? I got a beautiful Vixen Sphinx mount used for a great price from a really highly rated fellow over on the other site. I got pictures of the entire packing process, all the documentation, I could want.
Ok, I think this thread could use a little light heartedness so Here's my buying a used mount rant from another post, to another brother with a sexy WO FLT98 CF! The rant could be slightly edited to deal with just about any product category offered for sale in used optics land.

Hi 10k.
I just bought a Vixen Sphinx SXD for my new mount. i was looking around at the Atlas mount. Its real nice, I thought, everyone on CN thinks I should get it, but I thought, I'd like something fancier! Something more classy, since i'm 62 and in a few years, I could be dead of old age or worse alzheimers, I wanted something truly supernova to brighten my twilight years. That I could list below my avatar for all too see! :jump:
Hell, I'd make a new avatar with photo booth of moi and my lovely new scope&mount.
I wanted a Losmandy, they are real nice too, but on a pedestal of money that I could never hope to reach. Any cheap one, just evaporates with a sold sticker! That leaves many who thinks they are made of gold and worth used, almost more than new! Then i realized that the manufacturer who no doubt makes a fine piece of gear had the gall to not even provide a power source with it. Well, now i knew why everyone wanted so much $$ for them. Many had long accessorized lists detailing turbo knobs, chrome plated lettering, beefed up this and customized much better that, all stuff that should've come with it originally for all that $$. Gee, it was like reading the bio of a hot rod at a car show. I suddenly remembered the motto of a speed shop where I got v8 parts from. "Speed Costs Money, how fast do you want to go?"
I don't know, but between the gall and the high prices, I started to lose interest and lost hope that I could ever find a deal, you know some poor young astronomer whose unemployment checks just ended and with a new baby on the way. Ok then, maybe a CGEM, but the CGEM is not exactly cheap either, then a touch of some common sense realized its huge and heavy, nope, not4me! I had to have something more PORTABLE.
Then along came a Sphinx SXD at a great, great price. It really got my attention. First thought was, what a fashion plate the combo of our beautiful carbon fibre scope and the gorgeous Sphinx would make. It will also carry my 9.25 plus an entire load of super expensive and heavy gear! Who cares if it works! Hey, I'd be the center of attention at the local star parties, meet girls and maybe get free lattes or a job teaching Astronomy for one of the local public school districts. All I had to do was wave that beautiful StarBook around, ruin everyones night vision, and the foolish ones who were not already grouped admiringly around me and my gear would be forced to come over and :bow: paying me $1.25 each to take a look through my big 55mm Tele Vue Plossl with original caps/box/sticker, mind you, attached to the bold looking WO 2" dialetric diag suggestively clamped tight to all that genuine carbon fibre refractor with hot pink, bronze and S/S trim. :)
Anyway, when the mount arrives next week, i will be sure to provide a new new post with a great BIG BIG 2bigabyte color picture with just a gigantic super-sized view of the newly married couple! I bet it rises to one of those posts that you see with all the flames on it. Man, I want to start a post like that, like one of those Sages. But my flaming post will be stoked by excited noobie amateur astronomers (some of whom could be girls) and older worn ones with carpal tunnel, still dreaming of a glimpse of heaven on earth, all eager to see the splendid new astronomic fashion plate and clap me on the back telling me what an excellent judge of mounted telescope tastey's I am!
These astronomy threadsters will all grovel before the oversized picture of my lovely carbon fibre APO and beautiful hitech mount with the colored candy controller. My small observatory will become an intimate chapel of optical love :shocked: Love of the stars, technology, carbon fibre, pretty color schemes and tight polar alignments
OK I'm through.........

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