Jump to content


Photo

Sealed Acid batery pack, using for Dual Axis drive

  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 14 March 2011 - 06:46 AM


i... hallo friends,
For my CG4 Dual Axis motor drive, used on CG4-
D-cells die very soon, so thought of using the chargable battery, I bought a 6volts 3.2ma Sealed lead acid battery, exactly the same size that would fit in the battery pack holder and pouch. And wired to use it directly. Is that recommended? will it be safe on the controller circuit. Will it affect the clock?
thank you

#2 Bart

Bart

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2723
  • Joined: 28 May 2006
  • Loc: Somewhere near Charlottesville, VA

Posted 14 March 2011 - 07:25 AM

When I talked with an Orion Tech guy, he said that I had to be very careful to follow the recommended voltage. He said any variation above the prescribed voltage would burn out the motor. I don't know if that's your situation, but just be careful or you might be one unhappy camper.

#3 Trev

Trev

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 879
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2005
  • Loc: Fort McMurray, AB

Posted 14 March 2011 - 10:30 AM

If you can I would put a 1A fuse in the power lead, if the power surges to high it will burn out the control chip in the HC.

#4 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 14 March 2011 - 11:01 AM

Hallo Bart, I checked on multimeter, the voltage is giving exactly 6volt. (equivalent to Dcells- 1.5V x 4), Is that ok?

Trev, look Posted Image
The battery is exactly like this, little smaller than the 4 Dcell pack. Does it give high power surge?
1A fuse, or may be a voltage regulator? do you know any simple schematic diagram?
see you

#5 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 14 March 2011 - 01:59 PM


hallo
i would like to know any circuit regulator, that will pass constant 6v current that can be attached between the battery and drive. anyone?

#6 Doug76

Doug76

    Long Achro Junkie

  • *****
  • Posts: 10839
  • Joined: 05 Dec 2007
  • Loc: Refractor Heaven

Posted 14 March 2011 - 02:12 PM

That battery will work. Despite what Orion told you motors are tougher than that, and that drive is very simple.
As for a regulator, they work on the principle of high voltage going in, lower regulated voltage going out, so a 6V regulator fed by a 6V source will regulate nothing, in fact, it would reduce the output voltage because of voltage drops in the regulator circuit.
Use that battery, it will be just fine. Batteries don't surge.

#7 Trev

Trev

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 879
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2005
  • Loc: Fort McMurray, AB

Posted 14 March 2011 - 02:18 PM

Unfortunately when it comes to electrical repair I call someone else. I found out the hard way when I got a surge through my HC and it fried the chip inside.
The controller is only rated for 750mA so putting a 1A fuse in line is just cheap insurance. There is some schematics posted around here somewhere on how to put a voltage regulator into the HC but you need a chip programmer and other gear that I wouldn't have a need for afterwards so I just went and got a new setup.

Just to clarify, I was using a 12v-6v stepdown transformer. When it died it blew the inline fuse and the HC, strictly using a battery you won't have a problem.

#8 bluedandelion

bluedandelion

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1856
  • Joined: 17 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Hazy Hollow, Western WA

Posted 14 March 2011 - 02:56 PM

That battery will work. Despite what Orion told you motors are tougher than that, and that drive is very simple.
As for a regulator, they work on the principle of high voltage going in, lower regulated voltage going out, so a 6V regulator fed by a 6V source will regulate nothing, in fact, it would reduce the output voltage because of voltage drops in the regulator circuit.
Use that battery, it will be just fine. Batteries don't surge.


I agree with Doug for the most part, but bad things happen sometimes. One such thing could be a short somewhere and this could send a higher current than what the motor or the handset can handle. So just to play it safe, put a fuse in line with the cable.

Ajay

#9 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 14 March 2011 - 03:17 PM

Hallo Doug,
thank you for telling. I think I will use the 1A fuse as Trev told. Thank you Trev, I wont be using a step down transformer atall directly. I created a female jack to a stepdown charger, which will be used only for charging the battery, by removing it from the HC.
thank you Ajay, But where do I put the fuse? in line red wire or black wire? or any?

#10 Trev

Trev

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 879
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2005
  • Loc: Fort McMurray, AB

Posted 14 March 2011 - 03:35 PM

Put it between the battery and the HC on the positive side.

#11 Doug76

Doug76

    Long Achro Junkie

  • *****
  • Posts: 10839
  • Joined: 05 Dec 2007
  • Loc: Refractor Heaven

Posted 14 March 2011 - 10:25 PM

Yep, put a fuse on it.

#12 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 14 March 2011 - 10:59 PM

thank Trev and Doug, putting a fuse on the positive.

#13 Bart

Bart

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2723
  • Joined: 28 May 2006
  • Loc: Somewhere near Charlottesville, VA

Posted 15 March 2011 - 06:32 AM

Hallo Bart, I checked on multimeter, the voltage is giving exactly 6volt. (equivalent to Dcells- 1.5V x 4), Is that ok?


I'm not an electrician, so I don't want to make any definitive answers. Just be careful, use the fuse, and hopefully everything will be ok. All I know is what the Orion tech guy told me.

#14 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 15 March 2011 - 11:56 AM

Hallo Bart, I checked on multimeter, the voltage is giving exactly 6volt. (equivalent to Dcells- 1.5V x 4), Is that ok?


I'm not an electrician, so I don't want to make any definitive answers. Just be careful, use the fuse, and hopefully everything will be ok. All I know is what the Orion tech guy told me.


Yes, thanks :)

#15 denodan

denodan

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 843
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2004

Posted 15 March 2011 - 03:05 PM

Have you thought about getting rechargeable D cell batteries?

#16 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 16 March 2011 - 01:04 AM

hallo denodan
Yes I thought of it, I would get them after searching around. But dropped the plan because they are 1.2V and 1.2 x 4 would give 4.8V , that might affect the clock drive. And 1.2 V x 5 wouldn't fit in the battery package, and don't know if that works.

#17 Starhawk

Starhawk

    Space Ranger

  • *****
  • Posts: 5492
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2008
  • Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Posted 16 March 2011 - 07:58 AM

Don't change the power supply for a CG-4 drive. It has no built in voltage or current protection. Your first indication of a fault is the controller will stop working. I know because I tried this and ended up replacing a drive after the controller was blown. Again, it has no internal protection against voltage or current; it works with D cells. It has non- uniform current draw, and is designed for the characteristics of D cells. And a fuse will not protect against over-voltage.

The cost of a drive will pay for many sets of D sized alkalines. Of course, after you blow your first drive, you do end up with an additional battery pack to pre-load with D cells. Convenient after learning the lesson.

-Rich

#18 Bart

Bart

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2723
  • Joined: 28 May 2006
  • Loc: Somewhere near Charlottesville, VA

Posted 16 March 2011 - 08:38 AM

When I talked with an Orion Tech guy, he said that I had to be very careful to follow the recommended voltage. He said any variation above the prescribed voltage would burn out the motor. I don't know if that's your situation, but just be careful or you might be one unhappy camper.


I want to amend what I posted above. Instead of "motor" replace the word with "drive", which includes hand controller and motor.

Upon review, I don't remember exactly which part of the drive the Orion tech guy said would burn out. All I remember is that he strongly cautioned me that "something" would burn out and render it useless.

#19 Falcon-

Falcon-

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4869
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Gambier Island, BC, Canada

Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:42 AM

I can not comment on the dual axis drive's voltage sensitivity, but I can give a bit of information regarding the voltages you might see from a "6 volt" sealed lead acid battery.

As with all batteries the voltage provided is not constant, the battery starts at a higher voltage when fully charged and slowly provides a lower voltage as it discharges. The rated voltage is usually what the battery will provide at about 50% charge. For lead acid batteries in general you may see values like this:

- 6.4volts at 100% charge
- possibly as low as 5.25volts at 0% charge (dead battery)

Also, while being charged and for a short time *RIGHT* after being charged the voltage could be up at 7.2volts or so, so if a lead acid battery is used and if the dual axis drive is very voltage sensitive then you might want to wait for a while after charging before connecting it.

I should say that Alkaline D-cells also show a change in voltage while discharging, I think they have an even lower voltage at full discharge too. Seems strange to me that the dual axis drive would be all THAT sensitive to voltage... :shrug: A fuse as already suggested is a good idea regardless. :)

#20 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:51 PM

Don't change the power supply for a CG-4 drive. It has no built in voltage or current protection. Your first indication of a fault is the controller will stop working. I know because I tried this and ended up replacing a drive after the controller was blown. Again, it has no internal protection against voltage or current; it works with D cells. It has non- uniform current draw, and is designed for the characteristics of D cells. And a fuse will not protect against over-voltage.

The cost of a drive will pay for many sets of D sized alkalines. Of course, after you blow your first drive, you do end up with an additional battery pack to pre-load with D cells. Convenient after learning the lesson.

-Rich


Rich, although I tried attaching the sealed lead acid battery with fuse and left it on over night for almost 5 hours. It didn't heat up the drive or motor or even the battery. all worked fine. It is just the one inch by 4.5 inch battery. But now I will use the D cells, until I find something to do with it.
Bart, ok thank you for alert :)
Falcon, thank you for your input.. may be I will try building a voltage protection circuit. Still I will have to check if it gives voltage drop due to the regulator circuit like Dough said.

#21 TopherTheME

TopherTheME

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 289
  • Joined: 11 Feb 2011
  • Loc: Rochester, MI

Posted 16 March 2011 - 05:12 PM

Just use the lead acid battery that you bought. The drive isn't going to be able to tell the difference between that lead acid battery or 4x D cells. As long as you don't reverse the polarity from the battery you're not going to hurt anything.

And if a 6v charged battery is at 7.2v, that voltage will drop the moment any current is drawn from it, even if its just a few uA. Besides, using alkaline primary cells is very bad for the environment and IMO should be illegal unless a recycling program is enforced.

#22 Starhawk

Starhawk

    Space Ranger

  • *****
  • Posts: 5492
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2008
  • Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Posted 17 March 2011 - 08:21 AM

You are pushing that voltage into the controller chip. Burning my drive left me with 2 surplus motors and a battery pouch.

The part about the motors in the other part of this thread is a red herring from someone who hasn't done it.

Your first sign of trouble will be the RA motor doesn't come on. It will be cool to the touch. If you smell the controller box carefully, you may notice a faint burnt odor. The chips are seeing the full input voltage- this is why D cell alkalines are safe and a rechargeable equivalent isn't. Again, you get no warning- she's dead the instant there's too much power at the input, and you're buying a new drive.

-Rich

#23 Eddgie

Eddgie

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12488
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 17 March 2011 - 08:29 AM

See of you can find a 1.5 volt pack that holds six AA batteries (for 9 Vdc).

Just use 5 1.2 Vdc rechargable batteries, and use a dummy battery in one compartment.

A dummy battery is just a dead battery wrapped in aluminum foil. You just always leave the dummy in the holder.

Alternatly, you can just solder a piece of wire in place of the battery in one space.

This will give you 6 Vdc, and even if you use just 1200 mha batteries, will give you 6 amps.

6 battery holder

#24 Ketan

Ketan

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 376
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2006

Posted 17 March 2011 - 01:28 PM

Topher :) thank you for writing, I will be doing the other safe experiments first.

Starhawk, which type of sealed lead acid battery did you use? what was its size?
Eddgie :) nice to see you again, thank you for the idea. I will make it and that will be my yet extra pack what you told.

see you

#25 Starhawk

Starhawk

    Space Ranger

  • *****
  • Posts: 5492
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2008
  • Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Posted 17 March 2011 - 07:32 PM

I tried using an AC adapter. I even thought it was being clever by using a multimeter to characterize it, first.

And afterwards, I had to ask myself what the $&@£ I was thinking since it only went through one change of batteries every 6 months.

-Rich






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics