Jump to content


Photo

New mount from Germany

  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 TORSTI

TORSTI

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: 11 Dec 2008
  • Loc: Finland, Vantaa

Posted 27 April 2011 - 01:44 AM

Hi. Too big for me, but good looking and plausible mount, made by Berlebach in co-ordination with House of optics Germany.

http://shop.hoo-germ...unt-HoOLN1.html

Jyrki

#2 orlyandico

orlyandico

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5362
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2009
  • Loc: Singapore

Posted 27 April 2011 - 02:10 AM

14 arc-seconds PE. For the price ($5K euro) one would imagine better PE...

#3 gustavo_sanchez

gustavo_sanchez

    Messenger

  • *****
  • Posts: 458
  • Joined: 30 Dec 2010
  • Loc: Puerto Rico, US

Posted 27 April 2011 - 07:37 AM

I could not see any 14 arc-second PE... it says "+/- 7" or better". That's different to 14" PE...

#4 Tapio

Tapio

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1327
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2006
  • Loc: Tampere, Finland

Posted 27 April 2011 - 08:08 AM

Doesn't +/- 7" periodic error mean just 14" total PE ?

#5 Starhawk

Starhawk

    Space Ranger

  • *****
  • Posts: 5509
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2008
  • Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Posted 27 April 2011 - 08:09 AM

+/- 7 seconds isn't a tolerance; it is 14 arc seconds peak to peak. This means this mount has twice the periodic error of an Astro Physics Mach1 GTO at a higher price.

-Rich

#6 Tapio

Tapio

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1327
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2006
  • Loc: Tampere, Finland

Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:55 AM

There is some difference in load capacity -
HoO LN1 (they could have made up a better name) 35 kg/77 lbs
AP Mach1 20 kg/45 lbs

#7 skybsd

skybsd

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4281
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2008

Posted 27 April 2011 - 03:40 PM

Hi. Too big for me, but good looking and plausible mount, made by Berlebach in co-ordination with House of optics Germany.

http://shop.hoo-germ...unt-HoOLN1.html

Jyrki


At that list price, with those PE numbers - I don't get it.., I'll keep my AP, thanks..,

Regards,

skybsd

#8 orlyandico

orlyandico

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5362
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2009
  • Loc: Singapore

Posted 27 April 2011 - 07:54 PM

+/- 7 seconds isn't a tolerance; it is 14 arc seconds peak to peak. This means this mount has twice the periodic error of an Astro Physics Mach1 GTO at a higher price.

-Rich


Exactly my point. I believe for that price (5K Euro) you can already get an AP900, which would have about the same carrying capacity (and <1/2 the PE).

Although TBH I believe AP mounts cost a lot more in Europe, hence this would be a better deal for Europeans..

#9 jmiele

jmiele

    Patron Saint?

  • *****
  • Posts: 4331
  • Joined: 04 Dec 2010

Posted 27 April 2011 - 08:13 PM

+/- 7 seconds isn't a tolerance; it is 14 arc seconds peak to peak. This means this mount has twice the periodic error of an Astro Physics Mach1 GTO at a higher price.



-Rich


Exactly my point. I believe for that price (5K Euro) you can already get an AP900, which would have about the same carrying capacity (and <1/2 the PE).

Although TBH I believe AP mounts cost a lot more in Europe, hence this would be a better deal for Europeans..


7 arc sec P2P is the PE is the publish number. Most AP900/1200's are well below 5 arc sec P2P with PEC off. My AP900 is 3.62 arc sec P2P out of the box PEC off.

A Mach I would give similar results IMO..
Joe

#10 blueman

blueman

    Photon Catcher

  • *****
  • Posts: 5328
  • Joined: 20 Jul 2007
  • Loc: California

Posted 27 April 2011 - 09:31 PM

The PE is +- 7", so it is 14" PE not 7".
Blueman

+/- 7 seconds isn't a tolerance; it is 14 arc seconds peak to peak. This means this mount has twice the periodic error of an Astro Physics Mach1 GTO at a higher price.



-Rich


Exactly my point. I believe for that price (5K Euro) you can already get an AP900, which would have about the same carrying capacity (and <1/2 the PE).

Although TBH I believe AP mounts cost a lot more in Europe, hence this would be a better deal for Europeans..


7 arc sec P2P is the PE is the publish number. Most AP900/1200's are well below 5 arc sec P2P with PEC off. My AP900 is 3.62 arc sec P2P out of the box PEC off.

A Mach I would give similar results IMO..
Joe



#11 jmiele

jmiele

    Patron Saint?

  • *****
  • Posts: 4331
  • Joined: 04 Dec 2010

Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:07 PM

I was talking about the AP900. I should have been more clear... Joe

#12 blueman

blueman

    Photon Catcher

  • *****
  • Posts: 5328
  • Joined: 20 Jul 2007
  • Loc: California

Posted 27 April 2011 - 11:48 PM

Hi Joe, sorry, I misunderstood. Indeed the AP900 would be 7" or less PE.
Blueman

I was talking about the AP900. I should have been more clear... Joe



#13 orlyandico

orlyandico

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5362
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2009
  • Loc: Singapore

Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:07 AM

So... why are we discussing this mount again? :)

The answer is.. an AP900 costs over 7000 Euro over there, if I'm not mistaken..

#14 LarsZ

LarsZ

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 213
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2008
  • Loc: Sweden

Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:59 AM

An AP900 costs 8750$. Those things are heavy, so assume 450$ for shipping just to get a figure.
Where I live in Europe, VAT is 25% and customs for telescope equipment is 4.2%.
9200 x 1.292 = 11886$ or almost 8000 Euros for the AP900. And that is without counterweight and mounting plate I believe?

To make another comparison, the CGEPro costs about 10000$ here.

It is difficult to get a mount with high photographic capacity in Europe at a decent price, but hopefully there will be more competition and lower prices in that market as astrophotography seems to increase in popularity.

Lars

#15 Benach

Benach

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1127
  • Joined: 24 Jan 2008

Posted 28 April 2011 - 04:22 AM

In EU countries ut is with current exchange rates roughly $1.10=EUR1.- (despite the real exchange rates) but exceptions in the negative way are common.

#16 Kaizu

Kaizu

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 472
  • Joined: 17 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Finland

Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:59 AM

I see HoOLN1 as a poor competitor to G11. The prise is higher as well as the load capacity. Accuracy is worse. Maybe the explanation is in the small diameters of the worm gears.
The construction does not seem so much sturdier that could be expected by the difference in load capacities.

It was nice to hear a word of an experienced user instead of an advertisement.

Kaizu

#17 Starhawk

Starhawk

    Space Ranger

  • *****
  • Posts: 5509
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2008
  • Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Posted 29 April 2011 - 08:12 AM

We need to slap tarriffs that big on incoming goods. That'd pay the entire US national debt in 5 years.

Seriously, you need to get your arms around periodic error if you want to know what you are paying for. The bulk of mid-range mounts are in the +/-5 to +/-10, or 10 to 20 arc seconds peak to peak range. Losmandy G11s are in the 10 arc second peak to peak error range. The much cheaper Celestron CGEM is in the 20 arc second peak to peak range. So, a 14" drive really isn't special. And at the price of this new mount, it's actually a bit embarrassing.

-Rich

#18 orlyandico

orlyandico

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5362
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2009
  • Loc: Singapore

Posted 29 April 2011 - 09:30 AM

a 25% tariff would drive the price of a CGEM up to $2k. Are you willing to pay that price? :)

#19 Starhawk

Starhawk

    Space Ranger

  • *****
  • Posts: 5509
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2008
  • Loc: Tucson, Arizona

Posted 30 April 2011 - 09:18 AM

Either that or get a Losmandy. It would put them on a more similar footing.

-Rich

#20 Jeroen

Jeroen

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 72
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2006
  • Loc: Belgium

Posted 30 April 2011 - 01:43 PM

An AP900 costs 8750$. Those things are heavy, so assume 450$ for shipping just to get a figure.
Where I live in Europe, VAT is 25% and customs for telescope equipment is 4.2%.
9200 x 1.292 = 11886$ or almost 8000 Euros for the AP900. And that is without counterweight and mounting plate I believe?

To make another comparison, the CGEPro costs about 10000$ here.

It is difficult to get a mount with high photographic capacity in Europe at a decent price, but hopefully there will be more competition and lower prices in that market as astrophotography seems to increase in popularity.

Lars


FWIW, there is at least one mount (European origin) which is affordable, namely the G42 Obs+ mount with a capacity of 40kg. PE is +/- 5 arcseconds standard, the precision version half of it (+/- 2.5 arcseconds) or even better. You get a graph of your mounts PE on paper. Its price/performance is unbeatable. For more information http://www.astronomy...G/G42_eng.html.
And no, I am not a representative of this company, just an ordinary user of a precision G42 Observatory+ mount. :)

Kind Regards,

Jeroen

#21 LarsZ

LarsZ

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 213
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2008
  • Loc: Sweden

Posted 01 May 2011 - 05:34 AM

Yes, I googled it and the G42 has some good recommendations. With Pulsar controller and counterweight it lands a little above 6000 Euro. Do you have one yourself Jeroen?

I just read that Gemini is also introducing a new mount, the G53 with encoders on both axis and some kind of friction wheel instead of worm wheel. According to the advertisment the PE is about 10" in 40 minutes. No price yet though.

And there is also the Fornax 51 mount with a PE about 14", but they claim about 1" after PEC. Not sure about the capacity though, but I saw a picture of it with a 300 mm Newton in the saddle.

And an excuse to the OP for hijacking the thread ;)

/Lars

#22 Tapio

Tapio

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1327
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2006
  • Loc: Tampere, Finland

Posted 01 May 2011 - 05:47 AM

Gemini making mounts ?
Thought they making just the electronics.
Any info on this G53 ?
And strange to advertise PE in XX minutes.

#23 skybsd

skybsd

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4281
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2008

Posted 01 May 2011 - 08:07 AM

Yes, I googled it and the G42 has some good recommendations. With Pulsar controller and counterweight it lands a little above 6000 Euro. Do you have one yourself Jeroen?

I just read that Gemini is also introducing a new mount, the G53 with encoders on both axis and some kind of friction wheel instead of worm wheel. According to the advertisment the PE is about 10" in 40 minutes. No price yet though.

And there is also the Fornax 51 mount with a PE about 14", but they claim about 1" after PEC. Not sure about the capacity though, but I saw a picture of it with a 300 mm Newton in the saddle.

And an excuse to the OP for hijacking the thread ;)

/Lars


The Pulsar software and its usability are definitely things that you'd want to research before you commit to anything..,

Of the three people that I know that bought G41 and G42 mounts, none of them ended up keeping them.

Regards,

skybsd

#24 Jeroen

Jeroen

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 72
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2006
  • Loc: Belgium

Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:09 AM

> The Pulsar software and its usability are definitely things that you'd want to research before you commit to anything..,

skybsd, one can also buy it with the FS2 controller if one has doubts about the Pulsar controller.

Lars, yes.

Jeroen

#25 LarsZ

LarsZ

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 213
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2008
  • Loc: Sweden

Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:22 PM

Tapio, there is some information in German in this link:
http://www.teleskop-...de#goto-g53f-ge

The 40 minutes mentioned is the period for a full turn of the friction wheel. The PE of 10" is without PEC or feedback from the encoders. With feedback from controllers, they state a PE of about 1" or less.

As far as I can see, the text doesn't mention any weight capacity, but since it replaces the G42, I guess one can assume they have similar capacity.

Skybsd, not that I am in the market for this mount (at least for the time being) but out of curiosity, what are the drawbacks of the Pulsar controller?

/Lars






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics