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Struve double star maps?

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#1 Greatshot

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 03:03 PM

Exactly what it says on the tin... I'm becoming a big fan of double stars, but I'm running short on targets I can actually find. I don't have any way to use (nor admittedly, much interest-- i'm a very visual driver and haven't been able to make much sense of that anyways) in RA/degree listings. Is there any place I can find some actual star charts with these marked? Stellarium doesn't acknowledge the STF name conventions. It seems like a fairly huge list and I think it'd keep me busy for quite awhile. Alternatively if anyone knows any *other* DS catalog that provides actual charts, I'd be equally greatful for that as well. All my attempts at finding them seem to just provide RA/DEC coordinates.


Thanks for the help. :)

#2 stevecoe

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 03:25 PM

Chris;

When I was star hopping I used the Uranometria star charts. That RA/Dec position can be easily turned into a position on the charts. Highly recommended, the combination of Uranometria, a Telrad and a 50mm to 80mm finder will really help.

Clear skies;
Steve Coe

#3 Helcarexe

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 04:52 PM

I would suggest getting that star atlas and or one of the following

The Cambridge Double Star Atlas by James Mullaney
Sky Atlas 2000 by Roger W. Sinnott
Cambridge Star Atlas 2000 by Wil Tirion

They can be of great help as they show which star are doubles and other important DSO in the area.

#4 desertstars

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 05:52 PM

I've found the coverage of the Struve catalog in the Cambridge Double Star Atlas good enough for my purposes.

#5 mountain monk

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 07:43 PM

Another vote for the Cambridge Double Star Atlas. Great "showpiece" list at the front. Sissy Hass, Double Stars for Small Telescopes has a bit more detailed observing information (a short paragraph) for 2,100 doubles.

Dark skies.

mm

#6 nightofnit

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 08:22 PM

I prefer the Hass book. The Cambridge Atlas, for some reason, does not give Position Angle. For difficult doubles, being able to visually match the published PA really confirms that the secondary has been identified

#7 Greatshot

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 12:24 AM

I've done the requisite googling and it sounds like the CDSA's the one for me. It sounds like the Uranometria's a bit out of budget currently (as I'd likely want to get all 3 volumes). I'll keep it in mind for the future, however, as it sounds like it's a much more robust mapset.

nightofnit, i'm curious.. PA is essentially where the stars are in relation to each other (ie, secondary NW of primary) kind of thing, right? I think I can live without that to get the better maps-- generally I can guesstimate degrees of separation well enough to tell if I'm looking at the right ones, though I might snag the other book further down the line when money's less tight.

Thanks for all the help :)

#8 exile

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 01:13 AM

Very good FREE atlas here iwth about 2,500 doubles and multiples, most of which should be resolvable with an 8". Keep you busy for years. Check this post:

http://www.cloudynig...5/o/all/fpart/1

Regarding P.A., stars in the telescope field of view will ALWAYS drift out of view to the west (called the 'preceding' quadrant). In a reflector, just memorise "poisonous snakes feel nice" to name off the cardinal directions clockwise from west (preceding) - in other words, position angles corresponding to 270, 180, 90 and 0/360 degrees, respectively.

#9 Greatshot

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 02:14 AM

Well, free's even better. :lol:

That's an awesome list right there, thanks exile!

I'm getting 403 forbidden errors trying to access it the links in the thread, but a quick google search (hurrah google!) found them mirrored elsewhere easily enough. Link at bottom of post in case anyone else reading happens to want them :)

As for PA, yea, that's about what I thought. It's very similar to positions in an airplane, so i get the general idea of it. Thanks again. :D

Taki Charts mirror


#10 exile

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 02:25 AM

yeah, it's still available on many mirrors, Greatshot. Go for it. It's a great resource, I use it nightly with nothing more than 90mm. There's a complete list by chart you should download as well, excellent for planning observing runs

#11 Cotts

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 08:53 AM

I have my Millennium Star Atlas marked now with every Struve list object. It took about 30 hours in all to do which was accomplished on several cloudy nights. Part of my 'observe all the Struves' lifetime project. I did this since there was no atlas which listed all of them.

Next: the Otto Struves.....

Dave

#12 desertstars

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 02:45 PM

I prefer the Hass book. The Cambridge Atlas, for some reason, does not give Position Angle. For difficult doubles, being able to visually match the published PA really confirms that the secondary has been identified


Unfortunately, Double Stars for Small Telescopes by Haas has no charts, so if it's star charts you're after, it won't be much help.

However, when I'm out hunting doubles it's Haas' book and the CDSA you'll find under the red light on my table. For locating the target the atlas is about as good as they come. For verifying what I've found, the Haas book has become indispensable. The combination scopeside is hard to beat.

#13 desertlens

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 08:15 PM

Gotta agree with desertstars. The CDSA and Haas (which has important aperture info). Happy hunting.

#14 Greatshot

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:10 PM

Mmm, I can see how the pair would make a nice 1-2 punch, but for starters it's the charts I really need. I think I'll pick that one up and then get the Hass book down the line for the additional info once I start hitting a wall of what I can confirm seeing on my own.

Thanks all :D

#15 Ed Wiley

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:18 PM

All the previous posts give good advice. I have been playing around with SkyTools Pro3. For any night I do a search for doubles. I can then select all the WDS doubles with the "STF" discovers code. These are ported to an observing list and I can then call up finder charts. It can be a bit tedious, but you can pare down the list by specifying separations appropriate to your scope.

Ed

#16 desertstars

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:46 AM

Mmm, I can see how the pair would make a nice 1-2 punch, but for starters it's the charts I really need. I think I'll pick that one up and then get the Hass book down the line for the additional info once I start hitting a wall of what I can confirm seeing on my own.

Thanks all :D



:waytogo:

#17 Helcarexe

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:54 AM

Mmm, I can see how the pair would make a nice 1-2 punch, but for starters it's the charts I really need. I think I'll pick that one up and then get the Hass book down the line for the additional info once I start hitting a wall of what I can confirm seeing on my own.

Thanks all :D



:waytogo:


We are always glad to help those who want to observe & hunt doubles.

So keep looking up.... :)

#18 desertstars

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 01:33 PM

Chris: Of course, if you get stuck on something before your library is complete, you know where to find us. ;)

#19 idealistic

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:36 AM

Regarding P.A., stars in the telescope field of view will ALWAYS drift out of view to the west (called the 'preceding' quadrant). In a reflector, just memorise "poisonous snakes feel nice" to name off the cardinal directions clockwise from west (preceding) - in other words, position angles corresponding to 270, 180, 90 and 0/360 degrees, respectively.

Could someone explain this "poisonous snakes feel nice" thing to me. I might be having a bonehead moment, but I dont know what this means.

#20 Helcarexe

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:47 AM

I don't know what the acronym stands for, but the cardinal direction represent the direction the companion star is located in reference to the primary star.

#21 Carl Kolchak

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 05:03 PM

Jason asked:

Could someone explain this "poisonous snakes feel nice" thing to me. I might be having a bonehead moment, but I dont know what this means.


Hi Jason

I think it helps you to remember how some astronomers describe the cardinal directions.

poisonous = preceding = west
snakes = south
feel = following = east
nice = north

peace & clear skies,

#22 desertstars

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 05:47 PM

Jason asked:

Could someone explain this "poisonous snakes feel nice" thing to me. I might be having a bonehead moment, but I dont know what this means.


Hi Jason

I think it helps you to remember how some astronomers describe the cardinal directions.

poisonous = preceding = west
snakes = south
feel = following = east
nice = north

peace & clear skies,


I can't help the feeling that the astronomer who invetned this memory aid had stayed up way too late that night. And then giggled himself silly when he thought of it. :smirk:

#23 idealistic

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:01 PM

Thanks guys. Is there a good reference out there for getting a better handle on celestial coordinates? i.e. degrees in right ascension, declination, all that stuff...

Now I cant stop thinking of silly acronyms.

#24 exile

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 12:58 PM

It's not an acronym, it's a mnemonic. If it sounds silly, invent your own - this one's been around for decades. Referring to the quadrants in this way is common in the notes compiled by seasoned observers such as Herschel and Dreyer. They seldom had problems finding directions in the eyepiece (and neither do I).

It's a intuitive way to locate directions in a telescope eyepiece, where objects will march across the field of view some 'preceding' or crossing first, others 'following' from the eastern edge.

#25 idealistic

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 10:02 AM

I didnt mean to say that specific silly mnemonic was giving me a hard time getting a handle on celestial coordinates. The first sentence was a legitimate question, the second was an unrelated comment. Herschel and Dreyer can roll back over in their graves now.






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