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Help needed - Twilight II altaz mount

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#1 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 05:35 PM

I am the new owner of a ES Twilight II alt-az mount. The mount came with these two small metal pieces, a 'lock washer' and a thicker washer/bearing item. I'm not sure the exact terms for these two items, so am posting a picture.

Posted Image

My problem: I have no idea where these two pieces are supposed to go on the mount. I did call ES but the two folks I spoke to could not help.

Anyone?

#2 AZStarGuy

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 06:04 PM

Didn't the mount head come assembled? My guess is somehow you ended up with a couple of extra parts in the box. How does the mount work? Does everything tighten down and move smoothly etc?

#3 rtanton

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 06:08 PM

I am the new owner of a ES Twilight II alt-az mount. The mount came with these two small metal pieces, a 'lock washer' and a thicker washer/bearing item. I'm not sure the exact terms for these two items, so am posting a picture.

Posted Image

My problem: I have no idea where these two pieces are supposed to go on the mount. I did call ES but the two folks I spoke to could not help.

Anyone?


No extra parts here.
Brandon, since my time at Meade THESE are the most frequently misunderstood parts of the LXD55, LXD75, and Twilight II mounts. The small metal cup is inserted (cup side down) on the rod after the spreader nut (large silver) and spreader bar. The cup draws up against the bottom side of the tripod base and allows you to tighten the mount head using the dog bone on the bottom of the rod. The spreader nut is used to tighten only the spreader bar not the mount head. The small e clip slides into a slot on the rod after it is inserted through the hole in the tripod; this captures the set up so it stays together. When I worked at Meade, probably 90% did not either use or assemble this correctly...dealers included.

#4 67GP

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 06:25 PM

They are not extra parts. My new mount arrived unassembled and with no instructions of any kind.
The parts in question go onto the threaded end of the chromed rod with the 'clip' fitting on the threads and the 'washer' is under this. It prevents to rod assemly from falling out of the base when you unscrew mount head from base. You put the threaded end of the rod through the tripod base(the main black part w/ the legs attached) with the black knobbed end hanging below with the spreader plate. The washer sits in the top of the base and you clip in retainer above it. I hope this makes explaination helps. PM me if you need a picture.

#5 67GP

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 07:08 PM

I couldn't figure out how to PM a photo, so I will try to post for all to see.

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#6 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 07:21 PM

Wouldn't the 'washer' in that configuration keep the mount head from seating firmly down into the tripod base?

#7 Lightbucket12

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 08:19 PM

Yes you are correct the head will not mount properly on the tripod base. As pictured the assembly is very shaky. This is how I first assembled the mount too.

Try this. Holding the rod it will have a chrome cup nut on the bottom. Above that will be a black dog bone nut. Above that sits a silver metal spreader nut. Place the black spreader/eye piece holder on the rod next. Now, holding the rod the top portion will be threaded. Place the washer/cup on the rod so that the cup portion faces down and flat washer side faces up. Place this assembly between the tripod legs and insert from the bottom of the tripod base through the center hole. With the rod pulled up you should be able to insert the "C" clip onto the grooved portion of the rod, just below the rod threads. The "C" clip rides in the groove and stops the rod assembly from falling through the tripod base.

Try this, it should work.

Bert

#8 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:19 PM

Many thanks to Russ for the phone call and Bert for the excellent description, I finally have the Twilight II set up correctly. I can verify that the thick washer/cup needs to be sitting on the rod below the tripod head, cup down, and with the flat part flush against the bottom of the tripod head. The mount is much more stable now that I finally took the time to ask this question and get this resolved.

Since I am usually using this mount with the leg fully retracted and without another scope attached to the opposite shoe, I talked with Anthony at ADM Accessories and bought a counterweight system to help balance the mount out. It is basically a dovetail bar with a threaded rod attached, with 3 3.5 lb weights threaded on. He advised he would be listing this item on his web site soon, ADM Dovetail CW VDUP-CW. The basic model comes with 1 3.5 lb weight, but i decided to pick up two extra weights. High recommended if you don't use the Twilight II with the legs extended!

I'm looking at a iPad mount that will attach to the VDUP-CW threaded rod and keep the iPad conveniently positioned above the center axis if the mount for easy access from the eyepiece. It will be awesome to have iPad running SkySafari Pro in such a convenient position.

Thanks everyone!

#9 67GP

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:53 PM

Thanks Lightbucket12, changing the configuration as you suggested makes for a much more solid fit.
Thanks Ain Soph Aur for the thread. I think some assembly instructions for the mount would be a good idea.

#10 Twilight

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:19 AM

Now that we are very confused can some one post a picture of how these really go together. Please. Its hard to understand by words when you don't have the mount at hand but may be thinking about a purchase.
Thanks dumber than dumber! LOL
Phil

Edit: I think it is a little rediculas that the vendor/maker can't throw a single piece of paper in the box with instruction. How much can this possibly cost!

#11 Phil Cowell

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:56 AM

First drop the spacer on the shaft. The C clip goes on the shaft after you push it up through the center hole. On the large washer on the head add a little grease before you assemble it. I used a LITTLE white lithium grease. Makes the whole thing move nice and smooth.
Phil

#12 rtanton

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:24 AM

Now that we are very confused can some one post a picture of how these really go together. Please. Its hard to understand by words when you don't have the mount at hand but may be thinking about a purchase.
Thanks dumber than dumber! LOL
Phil

Edit: I think it is a little rediculas that the vendor/maker can't throw a single piece of paper in the box with instruction. How much can this possibly cost!

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#13 rtanton

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:32 AM

Now that we are very confused can some one post a picture of how these really go together. Please. Its hard to understand by words when you don't have the mount at hand but may be thinking about a purchase.
Thanks dumber than dumber! LOL
Phil

Edit: I think it is a little rediculas that the vendor/maker can't throw a single piece of paper in the box with instruction. How much can this possibly cost!

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#14 rtanton

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:34 AM

Now that we are very confused can some one post a picture of how these really go together. Please. Its hard to understand by words when you don't have the mount at hand but may be thinking about a purchase.
Thanks dumber than dumber! LOL
Phil

Edit: I think it is a little rediculas that the vendor/maker can't throw a single piece of paper in the box with instruction. How much can this possibly cost!

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#15 rtanton

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:35 AM

Now that we are very confused can some one post a picture of how these really go together. Please. Its hard to understand by words when you don't have the mount at hand but may be thinking about a purchase.
Thanks dumber than dumber! LOL
Phil

Edit: I think it is a little rediculas that the vendor/maker can't throw a single piece of paper in the box with instruction. How much can this possibly cost!

Attached Files



#16 Phil Cowell

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 10:13 AM

Yup that pictures what I tried to explain in words. The large black plastic spacer/washer on the head itself I added a small amount of white lithium grease to and in makes things much smoother.

Phil

#17 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 07:35 PM

Awesome pictures Russ, thank you for your effort! These will be alot of help for new Twilight II mount owners. Also, many thanks for the personal phone call and walking me through the questions that I had about the mount and the Comet Hunter.

#18 AZStarGuy

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:18 PM

Thanks for posting the pics Russ! I'm seriously looking at one of these as a nice G&G mount for my 80mm.

#19 Twilight

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 01:58 AM

Thanks for the pics and the explination. Make it very clear. Question: Is there any kind of bearing involved. Or is there going to be friction problems if not kept lubricated. If there is not a bearing in the bottom looks like it may take some serious wear on the bottom of the mount where the spacer meets and rubs with weight on it.
Phil

#20 Lightbucket12

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 09:44 AM

Question: Is there any kind of bearing involved. Or is there going to be friction problems if not kept lubricated.


The mount to tripod base interface does not use a bearing as it sits flush to the mount base. The mount consists of two sections, the mount base and the mount head. The lower part of the mount is actually a mount base which attaches to the tripod base. The upper portion, the mount head, rides and rotates, on the mount base. I ASSUME since the mount base diameter is substantial using a bearing with moving parts would induce head shake. However there is a large plastic disk washer that rides between the mount base and the head section. It's not unlike the system used on dobs.

I don't know what the material composition of the disk is but, again, I ASSUME it is plastic with perhaps a teflon like material impregnated into the plastic.

Some folks apparently like to lubricate the disk. We leave ours dry, no lubrication. As we live out in the desert I prefer not to have the lubricant attract sand particles.

To date our scope and mount gets moderate to heavy use and the action is smooth. Should the disk become damaged or show signs of wear then we'll simply replace the disk.

Hope this helps,

Bert

#21 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 09:00 PM

Question: Is there any kind of bearing involved. Or is there going to be friction problems if not kept lubricated.


Some folks apparently like to lubricate the disk. We leave ours dry, no lubrication. As we live out in the desert I prefer not to have the lubricant attract sand particles.


I applied a light coating of Novagard G661 silicone compound to each side of the aforementioned disk. I can't comment on any improvement as I applied the silicone as I was putting the mount together, so have no before/after experience.

I also want to thank everyone again for sharing their knowledge!

#22 Twilight

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 10:50 PM

Question: Is there any kind of bearing involved. Or is there going to be friction problems if not kept lubricated.


The mount to tripod base interface does not use a bearing as it sits flush to the mount base. The mount consists of two sections, the mount base and the mount head. The lower part of the mount is actually a mount base which attaches to the tripod base. The upper portion, the mount head, rides and rotates, on the mount base. I ASSUME since the mount base diameter is substantial using a bearing with moving parts would induce head shake. However there is a large plastic disk washer that rides between the mount base and the head section. It's not unlike the system used on dobs.

I don't know what the material composition of the disk is but, again, I ASSUME it is plastic with perhaps a teflon like material impregnated into the plastic.

Some folks apparently like to lubricate the disk. We leave ours dry, no lubrication. As we live out in the desert I prefer not to have the lubricant attract sand particles.

To date our scope and mount gets moderate to heavy use and the action is smooth. Should the disk become damaged or show signs of wear then we'll simply replace the disk.

Hope this helps,

Bert


Thanks Bert for that information. This help me understand how it goes together. I was just concerned about the meatals making contact especially if it was aluminumor to disimular metals as I know that Alumnium gaulds very easy. But the tefelon in between explains that and therfor should work very well. That makes me a little more understanding in the future purchase. Sounds like a great mount as I though was the case when I have read about it. takes away my concerns therfore.
Phil

#23 cyberben

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:35 PM

Hi guys, 1st post for me and already love this forum. I'll now know how to assemble my new TwiLight II when I get it next week along my first scope gear since I stopped looking at the stars through sharp glass back in high school.

For those who have the mount, will I need the optional pier with a 127mm APO so it doesn't hit the tripod legs?

Thanks.

#24 Lightbucket12

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:13 PM

Welcome Ben.

Regarding the extended pier. I think it will be a benefit to you as your eye piece will be at the far end of the OTA unlike the Comet Hunter where the focuser is close to the top of the OTA.

I can't address the leg clearance issue with any clarity. I had an opportunity to view through the 127mm APO at the public star party in Bryce Canyon. As I recall the mount had the extended pier and we had no leg clearance issues.

Hope this helps,

Bert

#25 67GP

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:39 PM

I purchased an ED 127 and bought the twilightII for 'grab and go' duties. I purchased the pier extension about 4 weeks later because the eyepiece was too low, especially when viewing near the zenith. It is a nice solid (more so now that it is assembled correctly!)mount for a reasonable price. I think you will want one for your ED127. Enjoy your new scope.






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