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New Orthos from Germany

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#1 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:04 AM

Hello Everybody

this Morning I have had a phone talk with the TMB Mono Manufactur in Berlin/Germany.

Everything we want is now clear understood and they will make a first offer for 10 mm, 25 mm and 34 mm.

The goal is to get the same level of quality as the latest Zeiss ABBE Ortho's II.

They will send me now a offer. if we accept the offer, the designing work takes roughly 8 week for optics, coating, mechanics etc.

We will use my bandnew never used Zeiss ABBE II as reference, they will measure the coating transmission and other things, so we are shure we make a equal quality eyepiece.

Then a prototype will be made and we get it for testing. If we say yes to the prototpye we start first production run.

If you all like that design , we will expand the line

Pricepoint : They asked me abgout price. I told them if it cost the same money as the ABBE sold , we are ok, that should be at current exchange rate ( 1 Euro = $ 1.30) around $ 350 or a bit less.

now lets wait a bit and see what comes out

#2 hfjacinto

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:54 AM

:goodjob: :like:

#3 Mak2007

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:50 PM

Awesome news!!! Please let us know when they are ready, I am very interested especially in the long focal ones.

#4 ZielkeNightsky

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:52 PM

Great news

#5 BWAZ

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:50 PM

I'm in if it works out as planned.

#6 Gord

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:04 PM

Very exciting! I like the sound of the details so far.

Clear skies,

#7 Sirius76

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:45 PM

Keep us posted! I'm in for a set!!

#8 Moonglum

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:35 PM

What are the field stops of the 25 and 34's?

#9 Jim Rosenstock

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:55 PM

Keep us posted! I'm in for a set!!


+1

I'm in, Markus! :jump:

#10 Mark9473

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 05:01 PM

Any chance for a 15 mm? For me 10 is too close to the BGO 9.

#11 Aleko

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:38 PM

I would definitely be interested in the 10mm (or less).

#12 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 09:48 AM

we also running a discussion in Germany about the new eyepieces and they brough up the Idea of a König II modell, which offers a wider field of around 55° and a higher eyerelief then the ortho.
In conjunction we also discussing a real comacorrected barlowlens on top of the excisting TMB barlow for all those owning a newtonian telescope.

The Konig is also a 4 element eyepiece and a cool idea, as i think.

#13 suburbanskies

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 10:36 AM

Yes cool idea, Markus.

How are the optical aberrations of the Konig II and the ortho different? Do we really get bigger field and more eyerelief for free? :question:

Thanks,
Mark

#14 Sirius76

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:31 AM

Markus,

Keep my name in the hat for the Orthos

#15 Mak2007

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:51 AM

we also running a discussion in Germany about the new eyepieces and they brough up the Idea of a König II modell, which offers a wider field of around 55° and a higher eyerelief then the ortho.
In conjunction we also discussing a real comacorrected barlowlens on top of the excisting TMB barlow for all those owning a newtonian telescope.

The Konig is also a 4 element eyepiece and a cool idea, as i think.


I personally think that this is a great, great idea. Here in USA the company University Optics offered years ago a line of Konigs II made in Japan, which were pretty good in long achromats (not popular today) as well as Schmidt-Cassegrain and Maksutov-Cassegrain telescopes. I had some, and I really liked them. I believe that what killed the Konigs from the market was the popularization of fast telescopes with short F ratio like Dobsons, Apos and even Achro refractors; here people started to complain about the performance of the Konigs. Also, the appearance in the market of other wide field eyepieces, some of them cheaper than the U.O. Konigs, made UO (or the manufacturer in Japan) to discontinue them.
If you could design a Konig keeping an on-axis performance of the Abbe ortho, and with a lateral correction usable in up to F/5 scopes, then you should have a winner eyepiece.
Importantly, whatever eyepiece design you use, your new eyepiece must have an on-axis performance identical to a Supermonocentric or a Zeiss Abbe... this is crucial to me and probably to other users as well.
Good luck with this adventure. Count me in (PS. I have bought some of my supermonos from you in the past and I am truly interested in this new German eyepieces. All the best)

#16 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 02:35 PM

we will compare the spots before w emake a final decision, but on axis , same good made, they should have identical performance.
The König II is stated to be superior to the Zeiss Abbe, read this article
http://www.brayebroo...ofEYEPIECES.pdf

and here the overview
http://www.brayebroo...NS/treediag.jpg

there is another idea coming up, mentioned by Uwe Laux of Zeiss

YAG cristall = Yttrium-Aluminum-Granat of the eye lens with superior performance , saves 1 lens in the field group. But this is super hard and maybe much to expensive element

#17 Jim Rosenstock

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 03:01 PM

Markus,

I love my old University Optics Konig eyepieces, and would also love to see a high-end German Konig reissue.

There is confusion, BTW, about what constitutes "Konig" and "Konig-II" etc....as you know, Albert Konig created many eyepiece designs, which have also been modified by others.

In any case, I'd support an uber-Konig reissue as well. But I think that a German made uber-Abbe would generate more interest.

As for YAG eyelenses, can you explain the benefits (and possibly quantify the added cost)?

Cheers,

Jim

#18 Mark9473

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 08:34 AM

The König II is stated to be superior to the Zeiss Abbe, read this article
http://www.brayebroo...ofEYEPIECES.pdf


If you're reading that text, Markus, weren't you intrigued by the description of eyepieces that "have very flat 60° fields at f/4 completely free from rectilinear distortion,
lateral colour, and minimal astigmatism. These eyepieces are highly corrected with extended eye clearance of 1.2Fe."?

#19 sungrazer

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:24 AM

I admit, that I'm not an expert in optics of any kind. But, when I look at the König II design, there are more air to glas surfaces compared to the Abbe Ortho design, isn't it?. I would still vote for the Abbe design...

#20 ThomasM

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 04:03 PM

Actually,

the design of the aspheric Abbe ortho (25 mm focal length) with three lenses and 55 degree AFOV is very interesting. It seems that the some of the Zeiss microscope eyepieces follow this direction, e.g.the 10 mm focal length with comfortable 11 mm eyerelief and 55 degress AFOV.
Several years ago Astro Physics has manufactured eyepieces, the Super Planetary with only three lenses and long eye relief (100-140 % of the focal length).

I think this would be very interesting option for a new line of eyepiece. I would be most interested in 6 and 8 mm, but the longer focal length would off course also be interesting.

Thomas

#21 BillP

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 03:33 PM

we also running a discussion in Germany about the new eyepieces and they brough up the Idea of a König II modell, which offers a wider field of around 55° and a higher eyerelief then the ortho.
...
The Konig is also a 4 element eyepiece and a cool idea, as i think.


Yes 4 elements, but your air-glass interfaces jumps to 6 instead of 4 with an ABBE. Given the almost zero light loss from the glass itself, if you are going to go to 6 air-glass interfaces then there are a host of 5 and more element designs that will stay with the 3 group concept of the Konig II, so it is a 4/3 design whereas the ABBE is a 4/2 design.

Thinking about production, if you are going to use a 3 group design, figure 2 of this partent shows a 3/3 design with good off-axis and good eye relief. Bertele also I believe has a 4/3 design, as do Shultz, Galoc, and Kalliscopic.

#22 eastwd

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:31 PM

Marcus, I’m late to this thread, and I missed the thread you started back in mid-December where you invited people to answer the question, “what’s the market missing?” with regard to world class planetary eyepieces. I’m fairly new as far as CN membership and don’t post much, but I read the forums avidly, have been an amateur astronomer for about 35 years, and am geeked on planetary eyepieces. From your original post, it sounded like the ship had sailed and that your manufacturer’s going to give you a quote for 50 units of 10mm, 25mm, and 34mm Abbe orthos. But the König discussion makes me think there’s still some flexibility before you decide what to offer to see if enough interest is there for a production run. It also sounds like maybe you're not limited by design costs to copying a specific, discontinued eyepiece.

Now to my point: are you sure the best option is to offer another 10mm? The ZAO-II offering a couple of years ago included a 10mm eyepiece, so many of us already have that focal length covered. (I have a pair of 10mm ZAO-Is.) It seems that if you really want to fill a gap in the market and move some units, you’d do better to offer a world class ortho in a focal length that’s been “under-served” for a long time, like 7, 8 or 9mm. I’m still trying to put together a set of used .965 Pentax SMC orthos in the 7 and 9mm focal lengths for binoviewing, or a pair of 8mm AP SPLs – I’d snap up pairs in any of those focal lengths from your new offering in a heartbeat, and I’ll bet a lot of other folks with full sets of ZAOs would, too. But I just don’t need another 10mm (or 6mm) planetary eyepiece.

One final idea, in keeping with the notion that offering unique but useful focal lengths will expand your market and attract more buyers. What about making the initial offering in these three unique focal lengths: 8mm, 22mm, and 36mm? My needs are already covered in the 25mm focal length, but I’d jump at the chance to own a pair of 22 or 36mms. You could add an option for a high quality Abbe barlow at 1.5x – which would also be a unique accessory. Buyers who purchase just the three new focal lengths, plus the new 1.5x barlow and any high quality 2x barlow would have this range of focal lengths: 4mm, 5.3mm, 8mm, 11mm, 14.7mm, 18mm, 22mm, 24mm, 36mm. Very nice!

Larry

#23 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:18 AM

Hi Larry

I agree with you, the 10,25,34 came up from the people who replied here and elsewhere, they mentioned this 3 focallength as the most welcome once

#24 suburbanskies

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:16 AM

Markus,

Later when you have price quotes, you may want to take a vote among your customers who will actually buy. What focal lengths will they want? As you know, the people who post on forums may ask for one thing but then disappear when it comes time to provide money! :)

Mark

#25 telescopemullet

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:11 PM

I got the money and I want part of this for sure!!!!






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