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New Orthos from Germany

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#101 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 04:23 PM

Hi There, yes w ehave some news

1, the optical designer at Berliner Glas gave up on the drem eyepiece

2, we could do the already designed Ortho design

but there are news stopping us to go the way to make expensive orthos in germany.

The Multicoated Orthos from Japan coming back, also the wider field extra flat field eyepieces from japan coming back.

Next week we will know the prices, but we know already that orthos made in germany would cost 2 or 3 times more then those multicoated orthos made in Japan.

Right now there is under checking if we can name the optics maker of this multicoated orthos from Japan or not, but what I can tell you is that this maker is famous and everybody know its famous name.

This orthos coming back in middle of october 2012 , next week we will know the firm retail prices, which will be in any case below $ 200

also the Super Mono production 12,14,16 mm have been fully sold out now, so after delivery/shipping of this production run in some weeks, we start a small production run of the super monos 4 mm, 5mm and 6 mm, wait my announcement here

#102 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:45 PM

Hi Markus. What f/l are the Japan orthos? Are these of any significant difference between the BGO (very nice coatings but sub-optimal design) or Circle T design (optimal volcano design) with better coatings? Also the new Baader Ortho designs will be releasesd later this year unless they are vaporware.

#103 Bob S.

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:22 AM

Brandon, Bob Luffel at Alpine Astro advised me that Thomas Baader was in the final stages of checking the Chinese glass coming out in the new Baader orthos. They do not appear to be vaporware. They supposedly are going to be sold in sets of three with a barlow to make a complete system and will be priced in the $350 USD or less neighborhood for the system. It reportedly was designed to be able to have people without orthos to start off with a complete set right out of the gate. Bob

#104 Ambiorix

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:36 AM

That's great news indeed, 350 bucks for an ordanary ortho, with just a couple of small tiny lenses inside and with a very small eyerelief and very narrow f.o.v. and as a typical ortho, well-corrected for f10 or longer, in a period where even an f9 or so instrument is called long focus.....and also very cheap to produce too! I really wonder how much the profit margin is on these for APM?

I remember some odd 20 years or so ago a Lichtenknecker ortho came at more or less 30 Euro's because of the simple, yet, good design, when the refractors where "all" long focus instruments and when instruments shorter than f10 where called "richfield" telescopes, not to be used for planets:) Lichtenknecker advertised their 125mm f10!!! refractor as a short fl instrument, the perfect "comet catcher":):):)

Than came shorter refractors, more colour corrected, with exotic glass types (still the most sold apo today!) and shorter fl lengths, easier to mount, larger fields etc...

Then we had genious folks like uncle Al, who came to the conclusion that those simple, "cheap" ortho's did not do a very good job in these fine new short apo-refractors, so he invented the Nagler's, more eyerelief(a bit more at least) for a given fl length, much more field of view, much better corrected towards the fieldstop, in a word a perfect match for those short apo refractors, often used on a non-driven mount...
Only disadvantage, they did cost about 10 times the price of a simple Lichtenknecker ortho....which was by the way a very fine eyepiece with long fl scopes!

Now, 2012, 20 years or more later comes Markus Ludes,shouting eureka, with another ortho, like so many others, and just like their forefathers with small fields of views, only sharp in the centre (at least in shorter fl scopes, ....f9 is short!), very short eyerelief etc...etc....great indeed!

Only catch, this time his orthos (like the much too expensive, very good, but much too high prized Zeis orthos...but hey...you pay at least 70% for the name!) come at even a higher price than a Televue...say Type 6 Nagler!

Talking about the world upside down.

But if this is good for business, why the hell not. Sooner or later people, just like they did 20 or so years ago, will realize that those ortho's have too little eyerelief, too small fields, not enough corrected if used with an undriven mount on a short fl scope...etc...and they will sell them again and go shopping for something like Televue Nagler type 6's etc..

Let's only hope that then those Naglers will not cost 10 times the price of Ludes' ortho's, like they did 20 years ago, which would maen a Nagler would cost about $3500:)

Conclusion : A good ortho is welcome for people who have the correct scopes for them and know what they are doing, but NOT at these prices. After all, Ludes' APM does not yet have the Zeiss name nor reputation, to justify asking prices the same as Zeiss did. Wonna bet, that if the Zeiss ortho's would have been sold at the price they were really worth, that Ludes's orthos would now be presented at prices around half the ones he will sell them for, if not less, and he would still be making a profit!

At the prices these are presented right now it is almost the same as if he would say, APM have made a brand new achromat 100mm f 20 with perfect colour correction, and the prices will be around $4000, which is more or less the same as for our 100mm f8 apo's, since these will have more or less the same colour correction......see what I mean? Or it would be something like a car manufacturer advertising that he is proud to present his new 2012 model, which will have an amazing 100BHP for a 3000CC turbo-charged engine, with 165mm tires, no discbrakes, which will drink around 25l per 100km, but which will last for more than 300.000km's, which is something the newer cars with more HP etc.. will not be able to do, so the price of this car will be the same as any other "modern" one....Don't think many people would put their brass on the table for this? Perhaps if this car would cost 1/10th of the more up to date version, but not at these prices:):)

Off course this is my 2 cents, EVERY individual is totally free in thinking and buying what he wants, and shure these ortho's will be good ones, have no fear, but highly over-prices for what they are, in my opinion.

Off course under 200 is "better" but still far away from other ortho's made in the far east!

#105 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:48 AM

Hi Ambiorix

no comment about your personal point of view on orthos , this everybody personals view and accepted.

Nut I have to comment your other words about prices . You talking here empty air , since you have never ever tried your self to organize a small eyepiece production with any western manufactur , otherwise you would see real prices they asking.

A cheap ortho made in China with fancy named coatings cost a few $ in worest case , but you forgot to add " you get what you pay for "

you may need to continue your complain , how can Brandon ask so much for here brandons, how can ask AP so much for here spl, how can pentax ask so much for here orthos , how could baader ask somuch for the japanese orthos...they all make a giant profit in your eyes, right ?

we dont make the orthos in germany , period. we going to sell the japense made orthos , the classic versions have been now discontinued a new multicoated version is coming out.We going to offer and sell them.

My eyepiece case has also orthos, monos, but also naglers , and ethos, the right eyepiece for the right scope for the right visual observation

#106 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:53 AM

Hi Ain Soph Aur

the new orthos will be 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 7 mm, 9 mm, 12 mm and 18 mm

I have no design details, but I know the glas maker which is very famous even in USA

#107 Scott99

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:16 AM

I think he meant $350 for a set of 3 orthos & barlow

#108 BillP

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:52 AM

My eyepiece case has also orthos, monos, but also naglers , and ethos, the right eyepiece for the right scope for the right visual observation


It is always refreshing to hear the voice of experience :bow:

#109 BillP

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:55 AM

Hi Ain Soph Aur

the new orthos will be 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 7 mm, 9 mm, 12 mm and 18 mm

I have no design details, but I know the glas maker which is very famous even in USA


This is indeed excellent that we'll finally have a 4mm fully multicoated orthos again avaialble. I would also ask, when the timing is correct, to please offer a 25mm and 36mm one as well, the latter focal length being the best appropriate for a 27mm field stop please.

#110 Tamiji Homma

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 11:29 AM

It looks like Tani Ortho is back.

I saw ads on Japanese site, saying that they will be back in stock in October :)
Very nice.

Tammy

#111 Ava

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 11:43 AM

Hi There, yes w ehave some news

1, the optical designer at Berliner Glas gave up on the drem eyepiece


That's a shame! I was really really hoping for a cool, modern Konig adaption. It really could have ended up brig my dream eyepiece.

2, we could do the already designed Ortho design

but there are news stopping us to go the way to make expensive orthos in germany.

The Multicoated Orthos from Japan coming back, also the wider field extra flat field eyepieces from japan coming back.


Going on the focal lengths the multicoated orthos sound like the BGOs (except there never was a 4mm, hmm?) but what are you referring to with the "wider field extra flat field eyepieces"?

#112 ThreeD

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

Going on the focal lengths the multicoated orthos sound like the BGOs (except there never was a 4mm, hmm?) but what are you referring to with the "wider field extra flat field eyepieces"?

It is interesting to note that there is a PDF on the web that purports to be BGO specifications and it contains a 4mm as well as 25mm. Hmmm...

#113 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:43 PM

Hi Anders

in the 25 mm focal length you have a fanatstic Tele Vue 24 mm widefield, also the Kowa 20x of the Highlander Bino is a fantastic eyepiece and Zeiss West has 25 mm microscope eyepieces of superb quality.
In the long focal length have a closer look to the Brandon 32 mm, some supercritical observers here in germany rate it as a stunning eyepiece, the best of the Brandon series.

there are really great choices out on the market

#114 RodgerHouTex

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:39 PM

I believe you're talking about the Kasai-Trading website Tammy?

www.kasai-trading.jp

Looks like they found a new manufacturer. Happy days! I saw that too. :jump:

#115 Tamiji Homma

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

Here is what I saw about Tani Optics' Ortho information on Japanese web site.

4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12.5, 18, 25mm. Back in stock in October (Sept 10 2012 update).

3 surface single-coated, eye lens inside multi-coated. It isn't fully multi-coated all element surfaces, it seems.

That's what it says but I am not sure this is what Markus is talking about :)

http://www.starcloud...HOP/tanior.html

Tammy

#116 dscarpa

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:39 PM

For me the views in my Ethos, Delos, XWs, WO UWAN and LVW-my top of the heap six-bring to mind the image presented by a very good ortho. My T6s while very sharp with great contrast just don't have that clarity the other eyepieces have and their tones quite a bit warmer. As to the hopefully soon to come new orthos put me down as interested in a 9mm if the optics are high quality. I can hit quite a few lunar-planetary sweet spots of my WO ZS-110 using it in my vast collection of Powermates and barlows. The ZS is on a Voyager and the slomo should make for easy tracking even with a small FOV. My new 9 should also be a good eyepiece for solar system stuff with Lunt 60 and cats. A 9mm ortho's lens is decent sized and the ER works for me provided it has a volcano top. David

#117 RodgerHouTex

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:34 PM

I wonder if these are the volcano tops. Barry at Kokasai Kohai (hope I spelled that right) told me that the owner of the company making the volcano tops was 83 years old and in bad health. He said he didn' know how long they would keep making them.

On the Kasai trading website they specifically talk about the HD Orthos (flat tops).

#118 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:59 AM

I was now allowed today to lift the secret, the new fully multicoated orthos are made by Masuyama's Optical Factory, first shipments arrive in october

#119 HCR32

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:11 AM

Sounds great are they going to be limited numbers or supply will be available in small production now and into the future?

#120 dscarpa

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 11:15 AM

I was hoping for a volcano top but could go for a flat top 9mm if the lens isn't deep set. Any idea as to price range yet? David

#121 sixela

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:06 PM

3 surface single-coated, eye lens inside multi-coated. It isn't fully multi-coated all element surfaces, it seems.


That looks like the formula for the 'regular' Japanese volcano top orthos, not the Baader Genuine Ortho / UO HD ortho / Kasai Or-HC...at least the BGO definitely seemed to have all air-glass transitions multicoated, from the looks of a hastily disassembled 9mm one.

#122 RodgerHouTex

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:27 PM

I agree sixela.

#123 Heavens Above

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 04:29 AM

Hi Makus

Any news on those German made Orthos? When available and what focal lengths? A 20mm would be perfect.

Tim

#124 APM M.Ludes

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:00 PM

Hi Tim

the Ortho project died. We running the Supermonos again and to my big surprise we getting way more orders, then I ever expected.
The Ortho project died because we wanted to make something with bigger FOV and higher eyerelief and the star up cost has been just crazy ( aover $ 30,000 for tooling), so w egave up.
Now the new MC coated Orthos coming from japan.

But I may will also start first time ever a run of 18 mm and 21 mm Supermono

#125 Heavens Above

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:43 AM

Hi Marcus

A pair of 21mm Supermono's would be PERFECT for me, please please...... :) :jump: :p

Can you tell me more about the Japanese Ortho's, price, focal length and when available?

Thanks for supplying these low volume quality products.

Tim






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