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Siebert or Baader Maxbright Binoviewer?

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#1 Lane

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:20 AM

I was only considering the Baader but since they have been on backorder forever I have had time to look around and now I am starting to get interested in the Siebert. Once the Baader price increase kicks in, there won't be any significant difference in the prices.

Which one would you buy and why?

#2 Astrojensen

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:47 AM

I would definitely try to find a Baader Maxbright, simply because it has vastly larger adaptability to different kinds of telescopes than any other bino on the market, except the Baader Mark V. The line of Baader bino accesories is unparalleled.

Which scope do you plan to use the bino on?


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

#3 Eddgie

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:16 PM

I agree with Thomas. The Baader Maxbright is one of the most flexible systems on the market.

Alpine Astro has them in stock right now I think. Mine were on backorder for a few weeks, but he got a shipment in a couple of weeks ago and he still shows them as being is stock.I love the Maxbrights. The more I use them the more amazed I am at how good they are. I think you could spend a lot more money and not get any meaningful improvement.

And the system really is the most adaptable. While I could not reach the infocus with the 1.25x glasspath corrector in my 6" APO in the normal location, I was able to reach focus with it in positioned in front of the Baader T2 diagonal (which is superb) and still achieve 1.5x rather than have to go to the 1.7x GPC.

And in many SCTs or MCTs, it is important to keep the light path as short as possible. Once again, no system I know of can match the Maxbright/T2 for keeping the light path as short as possible. I don't even think the Mark V can keep the light path as short as the Maxbright (though I could be wrong about that).

To be fair, I have not used the Siebert, but I can't imagine that it will do any better than the Maxbright but will not have the amazing Maxbright system approach that really makes these a great choice for any scope.

#4 Lane

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:16 PM

Ok - thanks guys

I will probably try it out on all my scopes to see which one works the best but when I decided to buy it the main scopes I had in mind were:
TMB 92L
AT106
C11


Here is my other concern:

I am guessing that going through prisms must degrade the image to some degree. Have you compared detail views between the Maxbright and a stand alone eyepiece in the same scope to see just how much (if any) detail is lost?

For instance on Jupiter in my 4" apo I can see faint little tornado like patterns next to some of the bands, will I still be able to see that fine detail in the binoviewer?

In a globular cluster that I can resolve to the core in a stand alone eyepiece, will I still resolve it just a well in the Maxbright and see all the same stars in the core?

#5 Astrojensen

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:35 PM

Personally I can detect no loss of planetary detail whatsoever in my Baader Maxbright, compared to single eyepieces of the same magnification and when using single eyepieces, I always have to use somewhat higher magnification to see the same detail.

In a short focal length telescope, high-power image quality is crucially dependent on correct use of the Baader Glasspath Correctors, which corrects for the introduced spherical and chromatic aberrations in the diagonal prism (if used) and the binoviewer prisms. At low power, these aberrations aren't visible, but at powers typically employed in lunar/planetary observations, 25x - 50x per inch or higher, they can become visible. To counter these aberrations you have to use either a strong barlow BEFORE the binoviewer, or the glasspath correctors, perhaps in combination. If the focal ratio before the bino gets over f/15 or so, the introduced spherical aberration will be too small to be harmful. It is strongly dependent on the focal ratio the binoviewer sees. The small, but observable, chromatic aberration can only be countered with the glasspath correctors, but it is quite subtle in most cases and not something worth losing sleep over.

On the planets, I see more with the bino than with single eyepieces in all my telescopes from 60mm and up. On deep-sky, the answer is trickier. Globular clusters can be extremely impressive in the bino, especially in an 8" or larger, but the images are indeed a little dimmer, though the stereoscopic vision makes up for it to a remarkable degree. I can see fainter stars and objects by going mono, but I still prefer the bino on all objects that can be seen through it.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

#6 Lane

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:07 PM

Thanks - That sounds encouraging Thomas.

#7 Moromete

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:58 PM

On M13 I found that Maxbright bino dims the image quite a bit versus mono viewing.

#8 Lane

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:02 PM

I think they all dim the image down to some degree.

I noticed that Denkmeier sells a rather expensive binoviewer that is suppose to produce brighter images. I wonder how much brighter they would actually be.

I remember when 99% dielectric diagonals first came out. The advertising bragged about how much brighter the image would be, but in fact it wasn't any brighter than a standard diagonal.

#9 NickG

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

In my experience, all Binoviewers dim the image compared with mono viewing and the difference between BV'ers in producing brighter images is not all that great compared with the difference going to mono viewing. Perhaps this may put things into a realistic perspective.

As far as detail loss, personally I have never seen any BV'er show detail like mono viewing, simply I think because the extra optical parts affect the image. I realise 2 eyes help the situation in many ways though. Respectfully, there seem to be lots of observers who find there is no loss in detail, but I'm not one of them.

As far as Maxbright Vs Seibert goes, I wouldn't write off Seibert regarding versatility of the system compared with Baader, as Harry Seibert offers many services that a lot of others will not even begin to look at. I have no affiliation with Seibert, but have purchased stuff from him and he was extremely helpful.

At the end of the day, you won't know the answer to some of your questions until you actually spend some time observing and see what your eyes tell you, rather than reading all this stuff! If there is any chance at all to look through a premium pair of BV'ers at a star party or someone you know, that would serve you well.

Clear skies.

#10 Lane

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:37 PM

Unfortunately most everyone that comes to our club's dark site is there for Astrophotography. For the few that do come there for visual observing I have yet to see any with binoviewers.

#11 Moromete

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:12 AM

I've seen people on forums which said Baader Mark V bino gives images with same brigthness as mono view.

I wonder if this is true since light is split 50/50% between both eyes in these bino with a dielectric beam splitter.

#12 Tamiji Homma

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:20 AM

I've seen people on forums which said Baader Mark V bino gives images with same brigthness as mono view.

I wonder if this is true since light is split 50/50% between both eyes in these bino with a dielectric beam splitter.


You might want to spend good time to read Binocular Vision Summation

From my experience, no I don't see the same brightness between merged splited light by binoviewer and monoviewing. The visibility extinction happens always in binoviewer comparing to monoviewing when I see faint star.

At the level of brightness, I can not see anything detail either with both monoviewing and binoviewing. Just detecting presence of light or not.

If I am looking for detection of visibility extinction level target, I'll switch to monoviewing.

However, when target brightness goes up to certain level, things change drastically for me and probably for many people who enjoy binoviewing.

Even with light loss and passing through damaging complex optical elements of binoviewer, I see target better with binoviewer than cyclops.

Contrast boost, acuity improvement of image by viewing (bright, enough light) object with both eyes wins over monoviewing every time.

I see finer detail with binoviewer every time on planets, lunar, and bright DSO.

I think having good two eyes and evenly balanced beam splitter is a key to optimize the benefit of binoviewing.

By the way, I do most observation with binoculars so looking through binoviewer is very natural to me :)

Tammy

#13 Alex Gastélum

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

I have not decided on the maxbrights or denkmeier standard.
Any one here have an opinion?
Thank you much

#14 johntrob

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

I have used my Denkmeier Big Easy package with my C6-N and my TV Pronto. No problems, once I read the instructions on how to set the different attachments for each type of scope. Have not tried with my C8 yet, so I cannot say. True oberservation time with both have been limited thus far. Also used it with the pronto for a while one day, worked good.






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