Jump to content


Photo

Old C8 - cleaning corrector plate - advice

  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 A. Viegas

A. Viegas

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
  • Joined: 05 Mar 2012
  • Loc: New York City/ CT

Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:17 AM

I am attaching a picture of my corrector plate for an old Celestar C8 from 1993 that I am planning to mount on a CG5. The inside of the corrector plate has dust as can be seen in the picture. I have been searching the web and I know many say not to worry about it, but I was wondering if I could vacuum out this dust? I tried half-heartedly this morning, but just put the vacuum nozzle at the visual back. I was thinking of using acquarium tubing or something and trying to get at the dust using the vacuum. Ideally I do not want to have to deal with removing the corrector plate... what should i do?

I have just used it terrestrially this morning and of course I can't tell the difference, cloudy and rainy here, so no star test...

Thanks!

Al

Attached Files



#2 rmollise

rmollise

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15404
  • Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:02 AM

It is difficult to tell in this flash-illuminated photo, what the dirt is and if it is actually bad enough to need cleaning.

If it does? What I have used for going on 40 years is original blue Windex and original white (no lotion) Kleenex. Apply Windex to tissue and swab outwards from the secondary mount, changing tissue frequently.

If the dust is on the inside, best bet is get a buddy from your club who has pulled a corrector previously to help you. The key is putting it back in exactly the same rotational orientation, and putting any little paper shims around its periphery back in their original places.

If it is just a little dust, I would advise "leave it alone." ;)

#3 A. Viegas

A. Viegas

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
  • Joined: 05 Mar 2012
  • Loc: New York City/ CT

Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

its only on the inside.

I am just going to leave it alone

#4 DAVIDG

DAVIDG

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4733
  • Joined: 02 Dec 2004
  • Loc: Hockessin, De

Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:27 PM

If it's on the inside it is most likely fungus and if you don't clean it will etch the glass.
It's easy to remove the corrector with the secondary in place. Mark the position of the corrector before you remove it. Place a plastic bag over the secondary and rinse off the back surface. Then using a mild soap solution and a clean cotton cloth with NO pressure and slightly lifting up on the cloth, wash the glass. Rinse well. Dry with a clean cotton cloth.
Here is a picture of one of the many dirty correctors I've cleaned over the years.

- Dave

Attached Files



#5 DAVIDG

DAVIDG

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4733
  • Joined: 02 Dec 2004
  • Loc: Hockessin, De

Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:29 PM

Here is what it looked like after I cleaned it.

- Dave

Attached Files



#6 A. Viegas

A. Viegas

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
  • Joined: 05 Mar 2012
  • Loc: New York City/ CT

Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:06 PM

Dave it looks great after the cleaning. This summer I hope to attend Stellaphane and hopefully i will find some experienced people there who can help me out to clean it. Its certainly not a job I would attempt on my own, never having seen it done and being somewhat all thumbs in any case!

Al

#7 orion61

orion61

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4500
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2007
  • Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk

Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:48 PM

Just remember to mark where the rotation og the correctoe and the front cell holding it is! they need to be in the same orentation, or your performance will suffer!
Same goes for the secondary. try not to remove it,
When cleaning it just do small areas. Think of a Pizza, wiping from the center to edgen not in swirls. Put the cleaner on the tissue not on corrector and use a new tissue with each wipe, make a small Pillow out of them.
I put a few drops of bleach in the small Eyeglass cleaner bottle with Dr Clays formula to kill any fungus.
good luck
Larry.

#8 DAVIDG

DAVIDG

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4733
  • Joined: 02 Dec 2004
  • Loc: Hockessin, De

Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:39 AM

Dave it looks great after the cleaning. This summer I hope to attend Stellaphane and hopefully i will find some experienced people there who can help me out to clean it. Its certainly not a job I would attempt on my own, never having seen it done and being somewhat all thumbs in any case!

Al


Al,
I'll be at Stellafane, so look me up. I'll have at least one scope at the Pink Club House and maybe one of my tricolor C-8's that I'm doing both a mechanical and optical restoration on as well.

- Dave

#9 Live_Steam_Mad

Live_Steam_Mad

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 24 Jul 2007
  • Loc: Moss Bank, St.Helens, England

Posted 04 January 2014 - 07:33 PM

What I have used for going on 40 years is original blue Windex and original white (no lotion) Kleenex. Apply Windex to tissue and swab outwards from the secondary mount, changing tissue frequently.


Hello Rod, I could not get Windex locally in NW England so I bought some from Amazon UK (via a USA based seller), called "Windex with Ammonia-D", looks blue in colour and says "Original" on it. I got it from Amazon UK from seller "WP Hardware", described as "Sc Johnson 12oz Windex W/ammonia D", item cost 7.84 GBP including postage from USA, I hope I got *exactly* the right stuff? It arrived today, here's a picture of it I just took ;-

https://plus.google....958584291832...

https://picasaweb.go...BlueForClean...

Now I need Kleenex original white tissues. I hope there is no difference between USA and UK Kleenex?! As regards potential damage to optical surfaces by using the wrong tissues?!

Our local Supermarket (Tesco) sells "Kleenex original white tissues", I assume they are UK not USA made and I hope these would not harm the corrector or coatings? ;-

http://www.tesco.com...s/?id=253587159

I am worried also because many years ago my Brother used Toilet roll to clean my late Father's Pentax 10x50mm binoculars main objective lenses and it looked like he ruined them, the coatings looked trashed :bawling: and contrast was terrible (from being awesome previously), I assumed that they were scratched beyond repair from a casual glance at the lenses / coatings.

Also when I put too much paint on a Radio Controlled car body (PolyCarbonate) a few years ago and then tried to get it off with ONLY Toilet paper / Kitchen roll, I put very bad deep scratches into the body which later had to be removed with 400 through 1000 grit Silicon Carbide! (which leaves the body hazy but you paint them on the inside so when painted it then looks glossy from the outside as the paint fills in the microscratches).

And yet, a few weeks ago I tried to clean the 10x50mm Pentax bins with the horrid looking lenses with a MicroFibre cloth and IsoButanol / IsoPropanol / distilled water mix (Tamiya brand X20A Acrylic Paint thinner!) and the lenses came up looking lovely with the MgFl coatings looking pretty good :D, no real amount of scratches or deep scratches could be seen, just one or two small / fine scratches. However I'm still nervous about using the correct Windex and correct Kleenex. Did I get the correct Windex? Are the UK Kleenex tissues from Tesco as shown above safe to use on optics?

Best Regards,

Alistair G.

#10 Joe Cepleur

Joe Cepleur

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1997
  • Joined: 18 Mar 2010
  • Loc: Dark North Woods

Posted 04 January 2014 - 10:39 PM

Hello, Alistair;

Always love to see an old thread remembered and re-opened. If Uncle Rod sees your question and responds, you can be sure he knows 1,000,000,000 times as much as me about telescopes. But, to help where I can, I know a bit about American Kleenex!

Kleenex is a particular brand of facial tissue manufactured by Kimberly-Clark. It is made from 100% virgin, long wood fibers. This makes it incredibly smooth, soft, and strong, and also less prone to leaving lint on your optics. It's not lens paper, but when used with liquid cleaner and without applying pressure, has a reputation for never scratching.

Other tissues may introduce recycled fibers to lower the cost. Recycled fibers are shorter and coarser. That's fine for an occasional sneeze, but not for constant use during a more serious cold, and not okay for fine optics. The fear is that cheap tissue could scratch glass.

You may not need actual American Kleenex. The key would be finding a British brand that meets all the same criteria. I suspect that British Kleenex may well be exactly like American, because (talk about interests that are as arcane as classic telescopes!) Kimberly-Clark spends millions every year defending its brand. They do not want the world saying "Kleenex" when referring to inferior tissue. Given their zeal, it makes sense that they would seek consistency within their own company world-wide, but I can not confirm this. Surely someone at Kimberly-Clark could:

www.kleenex.com

www.kimberly-clark.com

That said, your adventures with the toilet paper used on the binoculars, which ultimately proved to be okay after touch-up with microfiber cloth (if no longer perfect!), suggests how tough optics can be, not that we want to mistreat them. The softest brand of British tissue may just as good. Perhaps someone in your local astronomy club would know? If you don't belong to a club, join one now. You'll be amazed how much in-person help is available, with full knowledge of the local market!

Cheers,

Joe

#11 davidmcgo

davidmcgo

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
  • Joined: 09 Oct 2004
  • Loc: San Diego, CA

Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:55 AM

Kimwipes work very well, just cut with scissors if you need smaller pieces, when torn by hand it generates dust.

These should be available in lab and scientific supply shops.

Dave

#12 bremms

bremms

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2530
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2012
  • Loc: SC

Posted 05 January 2014 - 12:40 PM

Collodion applied with a super soft brush. Some cheese cloth on top of the wet collodion. let it dry and peel it off. Cleanest optics you have ever seen. Does no damage. The other way is to completely remove the corrector and take the secondary holder off and give it a soapy bath like a mirror.

#13 rdandrea

rdandrea

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2860
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2010
  • Loc: Colorado, USA DM59ra

Posted 05 January 2014 - 02:56 PM

Just don't use the collodion indoors unless you have a fume hood. It's nitrocellulose (guncotton, extremely flammable) dissolved in ether (vapors are VERY explosive at room temperature). I have used collodion to clean optics and it works great. But I've always done it outdoors.

By the way, you can order small quantities of collodion here:

http://www.mavidon.com/

#14 Geo.

Geo.

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2773
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Upstate NY

Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:50 AM

Also much of the recycled fiber is paper waste. It's impossible to get all the steel from staples and paper clips out of it.

#15 Geo.

Geo.

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2773
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Upstate NY

Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

Al,
I'll be at Stellafane, so look me up. I'll have at least one scope at the Pink Club House and maybe one of my tricolor C-8's that I'm doing both a mechanical and optical restoration on as well.

- Dave


Any ideas as to what to do about sticky Velvetone?

#16 Live_Steam_Mad

Live_Steam_Mad

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 24 Jul 2007
  • Loc: Moss Bank, St.Helens, England

Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:48 PM

Well I e-mailed Kimberly-Clark UK about Kleenex and I asked were they using 100 per cent virgin wood fibres in their "Kleenex Original White" tissues as bought by me from a UK store, and I mentioned I was going to be cleaning telescope optics with it and they wrote back ;-

"Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding KLEENEX® facial tissue.

We can confirm that the specification of our Kleenex Originals Tissues states that they could contain up to 10% recycled fibre.

Yours sincerely,

Based Hadji

Consumer Services Department

Kimberly-Clark Europe (Kimberly-Clark Limited, registered office address 1 Tower View, Kings Hill, West Malling, Kent ME19 4HA, Kimberly-Clark European Services Limited, registered office address 40 London Road, Reigate, Surrey RH2 9QP)"

...so it is possible that the UK Kleenex Original White facial tissues have up to 10 per cent recycled materials with the associated possible risk of contaminents damaging coatings etc.

Having said that, Kimberly-Clark Worldwide say about their USA version of Kleenex Original White facial tissues on their website at https://www.kleenex.com/FAQ.aspx that "The Kleenex® facial tissue ... is made from nearly 100 percent virgin fiber. Virgin fiber is used in our tissue because it provides the superior softness consumers expect from a premium facial tissue product such as Kleenex® facial tissue." ...so the USA version seems to be very very close or the same. Neither USA nor UK version have 100 per cent virgin fibres, just almost 100 per cent instead.

Regards,

Alistair G.

#17 rdandrea

rdandrea

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2860
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2010
  • Loc: Colorado, USA DM59ra

Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:04 PM

To tell you the truth, you're probably going to do less damage with the tissue than if you fail to blow or brush off any dust. I think many people (myself included) use Original Kleenex more to avoid lotions and perfumes than for the exact fiber content. Just get any dust or grit off first and don't rub too hard.

#18 amicus sidera

amicus sidera

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4002
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2011
  • Loc: East of the Sun, West of the Moon...

Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:07 PM

Back sometime prior to 2000, word got around that formerly-prisitine Kleenex tissues were soon going to contain a small amount of post-consumer content; since they are/were the goods for cleaning optical surfaces, I stashed away a big bulk package of the little pocket-packs as a hedge, as did others; they've held up fine over the years.

Personally, I wouldn't clean my optics with any paper tissue that contained recycled content, on the off chance that something harder than glass snuck through the manufacturing process; comparable tissues with zero recycled content are likely available from some source, but might be expensive.

#19 rdandrea

rdandrea

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2860
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2010
  • Loc: Colorado, USA DM59ra

Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:18 PM

Kimtech Science Kimwipes Delicate Task Wipers have 0% pre- or post-consumer recycled content. I've read various things about the pros and cons of using Kimwipes on optics, but that might be a different avenue to pursue. The website says US only, though.

#20 Live_Steam_Mad

Live_Steam_Mad

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 24 Jul 2007
  • Loc: Moss Bank, St.Helens, England

Posted 30 January 2014 - 05:48 PM

Kimtech Science Kimwipes Delicate Task Wipers have 0% pre- or post-consumer recycled content. I've read various things about the pros and cons of using Kimwipes on optics, but that might be a different avenue to pursue. The website says US only, though.


The only alternative I have found so far to facial tissues with 100 per cent virgin fibre (which don't seem to exist at present) appears to be Charmin brand and Wilkinson's Nicky brand bog roll :crazy: (for posh people read: toilet roll). The last time my Brother used bog roll on our binoculars, the coatings looked trashed. I am nervous about using such an item on optics. Maybe I will use Kleenex on optics until I find a substitute!

Regards,

Alistair G.

#21 Live_Steam_Mad

Live_Steam_Mad

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 24 Jul 2007
  • Loc: Moss Bank, St.Helens, England

Posted 30 January 2014 - 05:55 PM

OK so I found a facial tissue with 100 per cent virgin fibre. The brand is called "Elegant" ;-

http://companies.glo...ltd-194015.html

...and it looked like I could get them over here ;-

http://www.staplesdi...&product=ele...

...until I realised I had the name of the latter item wrong (Elegant vs Elegance) :foreheadslap:

Regards,

Alistair G.

#22 Live_Steam_Mad

Live_Steam_Mad

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 397
  • Joined: 24 Jul 2007
  • Loc: Moss Bank, St.Helens, England

Posted 30 January 2014 - 06:08 PM

I just learned that according to ConserveATree the "Puff" facial tissues from Procter & Gamble are 100 per cent virgin fibre ;-

http://www.conservat...econsumer.shtml

...but then they also claim that Kleenex are too, which can be wrong in theory according to Kimberly Clark ("up to 10 per cent recycled" for Kleenex). The "Puff" tissues are only available in USA and would not be likely to be marketted in the UK under that name (if you lived here, you would know why, since "puff" is slang for something "offensive"). The Puff tissues are shown here ;-

http://www.puffs.com/facial-tissues

Ahh wait a mo, I just found the answer on Procter & Gamble's website ;-

http://www.puffs.com/faq

"Are Puffs made from recycled material?
No. Puffs facial tissues are made from virgin wood pulp." :)

I suppose I could try to get the Puff tissues from Amazon like I got the Windex from LOL.

Regards,

Alistair G.

#23 Joe Cepleur

Joe Cepleur

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1997
  • Joined: 18 Mar 2010
  • Loc: Dark North Woods

Posted 30 January 2014 - 06:53 PM

By golly, they've adulterated Kleenex! How shall I ever tell my British friends I'm a "Puffs" man now!

Thank you for this. I shall never advocate for Kleenex agàin, or buy a box for optics. Puffs are readily available here in the former Colonies.

#24 DocFinance

DocFinance

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 673
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2014
  • Loc: Clear Lake, Texas

Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:53 PM

I've always understood that clean (well-washed and lintless) cotten cloth was the way to go, and I save cotton rags just for that purpose. Never damaged any coatings or gotten any scratches that way on lenses, but I've never cleaned any of my mirrors either, other than to blow dust off of them or wash them with distilled water and let them air dry.

#25 rcwolpert

rcwolpert

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 797
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2012
  • Loc: San Jose, CA

Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:02 AM

I've always found Dr. Clay's cleaning techniques to be excellent.
See www.arksky.org/asoclean.htm for a complete description.

- Bob






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics