17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2
Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:20 AM
Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:10 PM
I’ve been avidly reading this forum and am totally sold on this camera. But please forgive me as im not planning to use it at this stage on a telescope but rather for a night vision project I’m working on.
I was just hoping for some of your expert advice as to some questions I have about this camera. I have had look at the 2 camera specs but I think I might be missing something.
I thought this initially was a black and white camera due to the lux rating. But some have been talking about the colour of their photos. Is there a black and white version that you have seen? As from what I understand it would be more sensitive. Is it truly 0.0003 lux @ faceplate or is it actually 0.003 lux being colour?
To me it looks as if it is only manual focus and zoom . Am I correct? Are these cameras capable of zooming and focusing using a motorised lens?
Should I go PAL or NTSC. I’m from Australia but does it make any difference? Is one more sensitive?
On the back of the larger camera there are a few terminal strips (RX, TX, Alarm) what do the others do? Is it only for the remote?
What functions does the remote on the larger camera actually control?
I like the smaller one but don’t want to sacrifice any important functions.
I realise this is pretty basic stuff for you guys but im just trying to get my head around it all at this point. So please help.
Thanks in advance guys.
Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:43 PM
This cam is a color cam. About the lux rating, you migh just as well ignore the number because there is no single, repeatable measurement method across different manufacturers. Sometimes, even within the same manufacturer, in different models, the measurement methods are different !
Note some of these unbelievable lux numbers are even measured (1) with IR llluminator light (not included) turned on, or (2) turn long exposure on, which is useless for security cam applications.
The cam does not come with any lens, you have to order your own per your requirement. Also the only interface this camera has to interface with the lens is the "DC Lens" connector which can only tell the compatible lens to adjust the iris opening. Anything else on lens control, the control signals has to talk directly to the control console, not through this camera.
Australia is PAL so order PAL type is more suitable in most cases.
RE: the camera terminal strip
Rx and Tx form a pair to use a twisted cable (2-wires) to interface with the RS485 controller to achieve the same effect of button pushes on these 5 buttons.
Alarm interface is a contact closure output to interface with an alarm system. In cam's menu setting, there is an "Alarm sensing page".
BTW, there are many security CCTV camera forums. You might be able to find some better answers there.
Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:23 AM
Ok so the camera is color, but at night it can switch to B/W, when it does though, does the lux abilty increase as well or is an dedicated B/W camera better? To me thats what it appears the spec's are saying. So in other words, is this color exview sensor capable of doing B/W like a dedicated B/W exview sensor?
Cause I would like to go color but only if I dont loose the low lux abilties of B/W.
And one more...
Are Lower resolutions in the exview better in regards to light pick up eg. 430, 600, 650, 700, TVL ?
Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:24 AM
It's color. B&W is just by processing.
Day-Night mode setting is by menu selection (Day only <-- color, Night-only <-- B&W, and AUTO.)
In B&W mode, chroma signal is suppressed such that a slightly higher gain is applied to luma signal to make it looks "brighter".
READ: brighter =/= more "sensitive" (But with some measurement methods, the resulted Lux value will be better )
Monochrome CCD (in this generation, ExView HAD II) would be better than (same generation color ExView HAD II). However, I am not aware SONY produces the monochrome version of the same sensor used in this cam.
RE: pixel size discussion
Please read early part of this thread on my posts.
Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:42 AM
Do you know were i can get the whole range of exviex data sheets to choose the best one.
Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:04 AM
Thanks CCS for the link - I love the techno read - especially the Sony RGBW Bayer mosaic with W [white] pixels in lieu of green to boost sensor sensitivity even if currently only for phone cams
Please start from here:
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/Note: it's written for engineers.Good luck.Clear Skies!ccs_hello
Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:47 PM
I took your advice and had a look at the CCTV forums. The camera Im looking for sounds like it is the watec LCL 902K.
I realise you guys need sens up functions etc. but as i will be using it on the move it seems the watec will be better for me in this case (no sens up). Could you please give me your opinion as to wether in my case a watec LCL 902K would pick up light better?
Any other ideaS?
If Im off topic sorry mate
Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:58 PM
Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:11 PM
It's off topic really.
Anyway, monochrome ExView is nicer but I can say it out right using these regular CCD (i.e., not photo-electron multiplying techniques), seeing in the extreme low light without time-domain accumulation is a pipe dream.
Sorry I must state the above so you get the expectation right.
Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:14 PM
Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:32 PM
Welcome to Cloudy Nights!
The larger model of the LNtech cam is using the one-pair (half-duplex) RS-485 for control. Your device is a two-pair design for full-duplex.
Tie Rx- to Tx- and Rx+ to Tx+ to change two-pair into one-pair.
Connect the one pair cable to LNtech
Set your RS485 control software to half-duplex
Supply power to +5 and Ground
Test it again.
Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:28 PM
Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:43 AM
Just wanted to bring this thread back to life.
I have this camera thanks to Mark in Temecula.
I am on vacation in Baja Ca. 15 miles NorthWest of La Paz Mexico Baja Ca. Around 70 miles north of Cabo at a Very Darksite with fast DSL connection.... So I will be broadcasting on Nightskiesnetwork user Name GregW.
La Paz light Dome to the South East effecting horizon to about 35*-40*, but the rest of the sky is dark, clear, and dry... MilkyWay is clear & Bright and stars are steady.
I was happy to see Orion VERY HIGH even near zenith, the horseHead should be Great, also southern objects will be in my grasp.... Helix will be high.... :O)
I have had great sucsess with this camera at home under light polluted skies using my 14.5" at f/2....
For this trip I have a CGE mount with guider, Meade 8" f/4 S/N... F/2 with reduction.
I will be using a CGE mount that I've only used twice and never with guiding, So any CGE users that are watching I may need some help to get up and running.
My mount has GPS and a Polar Alinment scope, so alignment will be good and GPS will set my location so I an hoping to be able to do long exposures.
Sony 960 17 sec.
Starshoot Pro Color
Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:57 PM
I am going to use one of them as a allsky camera and the other with my telescope. Or the other as allsky camera...? :-)
There has been some posts about remote control for this camera, and I can confirm that Camcontrol.exe (made for Samsung by Steve Uckerman)and a RS-485 converter works just fine.
Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:08 PM
Because of this thread I have spent the last week or so educating myself about Sony's various CCD boards. It has been my understanding that a lot of sellers (ebay, overseas, etc) try to sell "snake oil" and a lot of buyers expect to get top quality boards for very little money. I have a couple of questions for those that already have the "sensitive" cameras, but first a few links that I think should be extremely useful if you are searching for the proper CCD board to buy.
Sony's 960H CCD Image Sensor:
Just by looking at the numbers it becomes obvious that the ICX672AKA (NTSC) / ICX673AKA (PAL) chip is the most sensitive.
Sony's Effio-series specs:
The numbers on that table suggest that we should be aiming for the Effio-P or Effio-S. The only advantage of the Effio-P is the real WDR, something that Effio-S does not come with. Hence various vendors came up with the term D-WDR (for digital WDR) that seems to be nothing more that nonsense.
An ebay search for Sony CCD boards:
To those that expect top notch CCD boards for no money I suggest a thorough reading of a long article by Nikolai Uvarov. Try googling the term "Nikolai Uvarov CCTV focus 23.pdf" and you will see what I mean. You need simple math skills to work the equations.
Last but not least a definition from my search results: "The wide dynamic range (WDR) function of a camera is intended to provide clear images even under back light circumstances where intensity of illumination can vary excessively, namely when there are both very bright and very dark areas simultaneously in the field of view of the camera. WDR enables the capture and display of both bright and dark areas in the same frame, in a way that there are details in both areas, i.e. bright areas are not saturated, and dark areas are not too dark."
Based on the specs from Sony's web site as well as the definition of WDR, I would say that WDR should not be important in astronomical use since everything out there is basically dark, with the exception of planets of course. Yet some users over here claim that the WDR range setting appears to be critical.
My questions: 1) Are you all 100% sure that the WDR setting is actually very critical? 2) Can someone open their camera and tell us if possible what type of Effio chip they have? You cannot see the writing on the sensor but the Effio chip is easy to read. It should be the CXD4129GG or the CXD4130GG. The CXD4140GG is useless for our purposes, in my opinion.
Thanks for your help.
Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:05 PM
Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:27 PM
Hi, if you do a search on: "SCB-4000 Camera Control Software... " in this forum, you will find a link to download on page two.
I could not find a Samsung Camcontrol.exe. Can you give us the web page of it? Thanks.
Note, it is not Samsungs software, it is Steve Uckermans!
Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:40 PM
Do you think is correct? This can put it in the trash.
Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:15 PM
Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:39 PM
Every manufacturer has a quality control standard for "bright", "dark" and Total non-Functional Pixels.
Unfortunately, the camera has arrived but has 2 dead pixels, but now I'm negotiating with Elaine seems to want 40 usd for another camera.
Do you think is correct? This can put it in the trash.
big name manufactures that I Will not name directly here would be allowed up to 15 total dead pixels for shipment. Just look up quality for dead pixels on Google. When the Sony PSPs first came out years ago people were noticing the 2 or 3 dead pixels when the screen was totally black. These would never be visible during normal viewing (unless you were REALLY looking for them). Everyone was taking them back and the game companies not knowing any better were accepting them as faulty and handing out new ones. Some of these were worse than the last by one or two more pixels. The game companies would then turn these around as "used' selling well below the listed prices. I scooped up several knowing the dead pixel issues was just an acceptable standard with Sony and had no real effect on game play or movie viewing.
Some brands have very high standards but still allow for minimum of 3 pixels but also have a “how close they are to each other” standard as well. You pay for that standard too!
In short I would not worry about the two. Hot pixels will far outnumber them anyway.
Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:43 PM
This also speaks well for Elaine and the Miracle Cottage Trading Comapany (I love the name).