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ES finder too close to OTA or I have a huge head

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#1 spongebob@55

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 07:24 PM

my used TED102 saw first light last night and between my glasses on and off, my eyepatch, and the straight finder, I couldn't get an easy approach to the finder. IMO the offset is way too short from the OTA. Has anyone else had this problem and is there a six point holder with the proper mount? Or any other solutions.......
Thanks
Big Head Bob :roflmao:

#2 joelimite

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:08 PM

That was my exact experience when I owned an ES ED80. As far as I know, the interface used to connect the finder to the mount is proprietary. I could never find a longer stalk that fit. I ended up buying a Stellarvue F50 RACI finder:
http://www.stellarvue.com/f50.html

It fits perfectly in the finder rings and eliminates the "too close" problem.

#3 EdTheEdge

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:10 PM

I have found with use that it gets easier to use the finder. Not that much easier but I always find a way to use them when I observe.

Joel you talking the right angle finder??? I might have to give one of those a try. Thanks for the tip!

#4 joelimite

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:31 PM

Indeed, Ed. No more sore neck with an RACI. It's a terrific finder and performs well on its own. I picked up a photo tripod adapter and sometimes use it as a grab-and-go for quick peeks at the moon or large deep-sky objects. I sold my ED80 but continue to use the Stellarvue finder with my TMB92L.

#5 OldManInHawaii

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 12:37 AM

I swapped the finder with an 8X50 RACI from High Point Scientific ($60). The High Point model appears to be the same as the Skywatcher model which Orion also sells. Coincidentally, I discovered that the RACI finder scope (finder only) also fits in my Meade 2080's finder bracket as well as the ES bracket. Photo is shown below. The High Point Scientific RACI model isn't as good optically as the ES, but it does the job for me.

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#6 Shawn H

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:46 AM

Aways a problem with straight though finders! An RACI is the answer or mounts that get your finder to a higher position. When I 1st mounted a Telrad on my xt10i, I'd have to get my cheek down on that cold tube, and bend my neck into funny positions! :help: Luckily Scope Stuff came up with 4" Telrad risers, now the Telrad sits up in a more comfortable aiming position! ;)

#7 Mark Costello

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:06 AM

If your 4" refractor is around F7, one option might be to use it as its own finder. I've used a 5" achro and a preceding 4" achro with eyepieces giving around 2.7 degress real field of view to find things pretty much to satisfaction for the last eight years. Otherwise, a finder with its own star diagonal will help, as per the other responses....

#8 Bill Cowles

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:44 AM

I had a friend build a longer stalk for my ES 127ED as I had a very hard time using the finder it it's original location, next to the ota. :jump:

Bill

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#9 BigC

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:56 AM

Nice job!

Practically every scope I have has a too short finder stalk.
ANd I ruefully discovered that if a scope is left leaning so that force bears on the PLASTIC finder stalk,said stalk will deform into a "non-useful" shape!

There is something to be said for parts made of nice strong metal.

#10 SteveC

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:26 AM

I feel your pain!!

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#11 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:26 PM

If your 4" refractor is around F7, one option might be to use it as its own finder. I've used a 5" achro and a preceding 4" achro with eyepieces giving around 2.7 degress real field of view to find things pretty much to satisfaction for the last eight years. Otherwise, a finder with its own star diagonal will help, as per the other responses....


:waytogo:

I like straight through finders on Newtonians because the finder is at the right end of the tube to be easily accessible. I am looking through the finder in the direction the scope is pointing and the finder is easily accessed.

With a refractor, it doesn't work that way, a right angle finder is effective because you don't have to stoop down to use it, the eyepiece is right there next to the main eyepiece.

Of course, as Mark says, the finder is it's own, no real need for a magnifying finder, a red dot and a low power widefield eyepiece is about all one needs.

I haven't quite figured out why ES sells their refractors with these straight through finders, it doesn't quite make sense, a good RACI would seem a better choice. I am waiting to the see these ES straight throughs show up used but that hasn't happened yet.

Jon

#12 EdTheEdge

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:09 PM

I'm baffled as to why they haven't changed finders yet. The MAIN complaint about their scopes are the finders... you would think they'd do something about it.

#13 coutleef

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:43 PM

I'm baffled as to why they haven't changed finders yet. The MAIN complaint about their scopes are the finders... you would think they'd do something about it.


Also troubling is the fact that they made an oustanding quality finder, but not for refractors, they chose the wrong design. With a raci of that quality or selling the ota without finder, their problem would be solved.

#14 spongebob@55

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:32 PM

had communication with ES customer service and he said that perhaps in 90 days they would have a holder with a longer stalk and a RA finder. That would be good.

In the meantime, I'm going to see if I can make a longer stalk stick myself like Bill's friend did for him... a little aluminum and some black tex paint and a slight angle and ........well, we'll see. Nothing is ever that easy!

#15 spongebob@55

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:36 PM

I swapped the finder with an 8X50 RACI from High Point Scientific ($60). The High Point model appears to be the same as the Skywatcher model which Orion also sells. Coincidentally, I discovered that the RACI finder scope (finder only) also fits in my Meade 2080's finder bracket as well as the ES bracket. Photo is shown below. The High Point Scientific RACI model isn't as good optically as the ES, but it does the job for me.


OMIH...nice mount. Can you tell me what you have there and what mods you made to help with the straight up?
Thanks.

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#16 spongebob@55

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:52 PM

I feel your pain!!



:roflmao:

#17 SteveC

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:11 PM

I feel your pain!!



:roflmao:


Wait till I show you guys what i did to my Denk P/S diagonal in order to make it more compact and travel worthy. I could not have been more stupid! It's at another location and I'll try to remember to post a picture in this thread when I arrive there in about 10 days.

#18 OldManInHawaii

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 12:14 AM

My mount is mentioned in the Mounts forum under the "ES Twilight I alt az mount" thread: http://www.cloudynig...ll/fpart/1/vc/1

In a nutshell, what you see is my ES ED102 scope on an ES Twilight I mount head coupled to an old tripod for an old Meade 2080 SCT via a triangular shaped 3/4" plywood adapter plate. The bottom of the scope does touch the tripod leg when directly lined up with one, but it's not a big problem. What I gained was a reduction in vibration over the stock tripod for the ES Twilight I. If you look at my photos in the mount forum, the heftier Meade tripod looks like a better fit for the Twilight I mount head....however, this is just my humble opinion. But this is all digressing from the subject of this thread....sorry for getting carried away here.

#19 coutleef

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:58 AM

had communication with ES customer service and he said that perhaps in 90 days they would have a holder with a longer stalk and a RA finder. That would be good.

In the meantime, I'm going to see if I can make a longer stalk stick myself like Bill's friend did for him... a little aluminum and some black tex paint and a slight angle and ........well, we'll see. Nothing is ever that easy!


i was told the same thing by ES customer service but that was 3 months ago

#20 joelimite

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 07:56 AM

had communication with ES customer service and he said that perhaps in 90 days they would have a holder with a longer stalk and a RA finder. That would be good.

In the meantime, I'm going to see if I can make a longer stalk stick myself like Bill's friend did for him... a little aluminum and some black tex paint and a slight angle and ........well, we'll see. Nothing is ever that easy!


i was told the same thing by ES customer service but that was 3 months ago

They told me the same thing... over a year ago.

#21 EdTheEdge

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:23 AM

Me too well over a year ago.....

#22 Bill Cowles

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:58 AM

Here is a close of the new riser. A bracket was made of aluminum and than a finder bracket, think it was an SV was attached to the bracket. I found some matching screws off of a laser holder and I painted the aluminum bracket with a black felt pen.

Bill

Bill

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#23 Bill Cowles

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 10:22 AM

Here is one more image showing how the finder bracket was attached to the SV finder bracket and the need for longer screws to tighten the finder. Hope this helps, because it really works.

Bill

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#24 joelimite

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:02 PM

That looks great, Bill! Pitch it to ES. Maybe they'll market it :ubetcha:

#25 spongebob@55

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

I had a friend build a longer stalk for my ES 127ED as I had a very hard time using the finder it it's original location, next to the ota. :jump:

Bill


Hi Bill,
I've gotten an extra mount along with some rectangular aluminum, it order to do some 'surgical engineering' on my ES finder bracket/holder. My question to you is by how much was yours lengthened in order to make it more / comfortably usable?
Thanks
Bob






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