Jump to content


Photo

The new Universe is in and working

  • Please log in to reply
132 replies to this topic

#1 Lorence

Lorence

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 854
  • Joined: 15 Sep 2008

Posted 06 September 2012 - 12:01 AM

Rock did it again. The camera was easier to set up and get working than an Xtreme. I put a few images in the Photos section of Rocks group.

Nice camera. It will give you people a lot to talk about.

#2 Raginar

Raginar

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6138
  • Joined: 19 Oct 2010
  • Loc: Rapid CIty, SD

Posted 06 September 2012 - 10:39 AM

Can you post your images here?

#3 Lorence

Lorence

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 854
  • Joined: 15 Sep 2008

Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:28 PM

Can you post your images here?

Attached Files



#4 mgb

mgb

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 223
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Montreal, Qc... Canada

Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:37 PM

Hi Lorence,

Is this the way Rock sells the new camera ? Equipped with all we see on that picture ?

Cable, driver and supply fine. I guess those two nosepieces are optional ?

#5 jgraham

jgraham

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 13904
  • Joined: 02 Dec 2004
  • Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Society

Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:37 PM

This certainly looks like an interesting camera, but most of these features have been standard faire on the Meade DSI series for the past 8 years; continuous live view, color ballance, color/mono selectabe (binning with the III), levels, gamma, all in real time. (I'm sit'n here looking at NGC 6871 as I type this). I'm sure that the details of execution will be different and this camera uses a modern large format chip plus active cooling. (Not a huge deal with the short exposures I use for observing.) A couple of features that continue to be unique to the DSI is automatic dark subtraction (probably not needed with a cooled chip) and real-time image selection, alignment, and stacking along with all of the real-time processing.

It'll be neat to see what this new camera can do and the price point it comes in at. It's nice to have options.

#6 ccs_hello

ccs_hello

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6623
  • Joined: 03 Jul 2004

Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:58 PM

Yep. The new one is using a DSLR's OSC sensor. RGBG Bayer (primary color) let less light in as opposed to videocam CCD's complementary-color Bayer (CMY, and G).
That's the tradeoff we have to live with (DSLR uses RGB to get better color fidelity). DSLR sensors are mass produced so we can enjoy the reasonable price.

As I mentioned in early post, this CCD imager has a very high-gain amplifier (and probably uses a less resolution A/D converter to obtain the faster readout time as required in near-real time liveview style.) But again it's a tradeoff imaging (high S/N) vs. near realtime view (faster readout).

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello

#7 Raginar

Raginar

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6138
  • Joined: 19 Oct 2010
  • Loc: Rapid CIty, SD

Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:47 AM

John,

I agree, the closer Rock gets to making a CCD camera over a video camera, the less enticing the product becomes. Can't wait to see some images from normal people around here.

Chris

#8 GlennLeDrew

GlennLeDrew

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10996
  • Joined: 17 Jun 2008
  • Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:12 PM

Chris,
It's wise for a business to diversify. And just who are the 'normal people' around here? :grin:

#9 jujumaster

jujumaster

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 39
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2011

Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:11 PM

Chris,
I have to admit that Rock is not a normal person by any standard. Having listened to him share with me his passion and detail for perfection in custom design and application of components that experts even at NASA said was impossible... I'd have to agree, he's off his rocker. But thank goodness someone is. I don't know the history here, but I have to say that having shared a few great times this summer with Rock was a fascinating and a wonderful experience. It was a real pleasure to see how someone not caught in the commercial machine remains true to his soul. Well, it feels like I just came out of the closet on my first post... Let's see if I survive the gauntlet.

Thanks,
Ian in MD

#10 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:19 PM

Very well said Ian and welcome with your first post to CN.

Chris A
Astrogate

#11 nytecam

nytecam

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11542
  • Joined: 20 Aug 2005
  • Loc: London UK

Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:58 AM

Yep. The new one is using a DSLR's OSC sensor. RGBG Bayer (primary color) let less light in as opposed to videocam CCD's complementary-color Bayer (CMY, and G).
That's the tradeoff we have to live with (DSLR uses RGB to get better color fidelity). ccs_hello

Hi ccs_hello - whilst we appreciate the need for colour fidelity in 'normal' imaging of faces and places this is largely irrelevant for deepsky objects where virtually no colour can be deteched by the human eye even if one lived next to say M57 - an emission line object ! I therefore take a more relaxed view that colour in deepsky, via a 'fast' complimentary colour filter system, is fully acceptable.

Of course Rock must use available technology as in the M/C Universe and undoubtedly big chips have almost universal appeal :grin:

ps: still awaiting some sample Universe pics!

#12 rmollise

rmollise

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15782
  • Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:51 AM

John,

I agree, the closer Rock gets to making a CCD camera over a video camera, the less enticing the product becomes. Can't wait to see some images from normal people around here.

Chris


I prefer video myself, and love my Xtreme. To be fair, however, many of Rock's users are focused on broadcasting on Night Skies Network. Having a digital feed will be a godsend for them. From what I have heard, the Universe seems to retain some of the features of Rock's analog cameras, too...I look forward to seeing one in action. ;)

#13 Stew57

Stew57

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
  • Joined: 03 May 2009
  • Loc: Silsbee Texas

Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:58 AM

For me the attraction is the larger chip size. More fov at the same f ratio is what I have been looking for. I looking forward to seeing it in action also.

#14 Raginar

Raginar

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6138
  • Joined: 19 Oct 2010
  • Loc: Rapid CIty, SD

Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:03 PM

You and Mark! :jump: :jump:

Have yet to see any pictures from anyone but Rock and Chris A. Must be cloudy skies from NES.

~Chris

#15 mclewis1

mclewis1

    Thread Killer

  • ****-
  • Posts: 11069
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2006
  • Loc: New Brunswick, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:18 PM

Lorence has also posted a couple of nice early pics on the Yahoo group.

So far we only have single or limited number of subs (interesting to evaluate the fov, especially the optical quality of the .5x focal reducer), but nobody has gone very deep yet.

A lot of the initial units when to existing Mallincam customers. It's going to take a little while to get good images from experienced imaging folks who have good dark skies, the appropriate weather and time to take deep images.

There will likely be a bunch of images from EVCAR over the next week or so but remember we really want/need images from experienced folks using the camera in nice controlled environments.

#16 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 06:44 PM

Hi Maurice

I thought Lorence posted a link to my site showing some shorter single none processed captures using my C9.25 at both F6.3 & F10. I will post these 4 images again just in case. I will be doing sometime in the next couple of weeks a live NSN broadcast using the MC Universe and I am also going to try some multiple stacked process imaging with this camera on the faint larger deep sky objects. Here is the first image of M27 @ F6.3

Chris A
Astrogate

#17 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 06:44 PM

Here is M27 @ F10

#18 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 06:45 PM

Here is M13 @ F6.3

#19 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 06:46 PM

Here is M13 @ F10

#20 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 06:47 PM

And finally here is M57 @ F10 all captured with the C9.25 & MC Universe. I did not capture M57 @ F6.3 due to the smaller image scale.

Chris A
Astrogate

#21 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:43 PM

Here is one M92 that I forgot that I took the same night as the others captured at F10

Chris A

#22 mclewis1

mclewis1

    Thread Killer

  • ****-
  • Posts: 11069
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2006
  • Loc: New Brunswick, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:06 PM

Chris,

Can you also explain the differences between your prototype/beta version of the Universe that was used to take these pictures and what is actually shipping as a production unit? I believe the software was a little different as well?

Chris's images as great as they are (great focus, tight stars etc.) don't entirely represent what the camera is actually capable of ... the shipping Universe's are more sensitive. Plus there are the imposed limitations of images reproduced here on CN.


We're going to need more folks like Chris who have CCD imaging and post processing capabilities to give the camera good workout. Still it's going to be a little while before we get to see what this camera is really capable of.

#23 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:20 PM

Mark

You are correct regarding the camera differences between the 1st prototype/beta that I was testing and the newer units now being shipped. The new models now have Rocks built in hyper circuitry making the sensor more sensitive to collecting the photons. Also the Peltier cooler has been beefed up to increase the cooling capacity from -30C to -45C The software has come along way with Rock adding the Long Power open window concept which greatly reduces the amp glow and most importantly the option to bin the pixels either by a factor of 2 x 2 or 4 x 4 to greatly increase the light collecting which then allows one to use a much longer focal length as long as the mount can handle this. The binning does not effect the color debayer at all and produces very pleasing results.

Chris A
Astrogate

#24 jgraham

jgraham

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 13904
  • Joined: 02 Dec 2004
  • Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Society

Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:01 PM

Wow, I just looked through the images that you posted on Flickr. Very nice! These are the best single frames I've seen. Most excellent.

#25 Chris A

Chris A

    Vendor Affiliate - Mallincam

  • -----
  • Vendor Affiliate
  • Posts: 1156
  • Joined: 03 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Toronto, Canada

Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:15 PM

Thank you very much John for the kind words and having a look.

Clear skies,

Chris






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics