Jump to content


Photo

IEQ 45 Question

  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#26 mgwhittle

mgwhittle

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1374
  • Joined: 24 Aug 2011
  • Loc: Chattanooga, TN

Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:16 PM

Mine is noisier when it's out of balance. Are you doing the balance routine through the hand controller?

#27 Wembley2000

Wembley2000

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 326
  • Joined: 07 Jan 2012
  • Loc: SW Ohio

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:12 PM

Yeah, I did balance through the hand control and like normal the noise was about the same. Today I was messing with it in the garage and noticed the plastic motor covers tend to amplify the sound I may try dampening them with some foam pieces or something.
Maybe I am just getting used to it, but it did seem a little quieter in the garage.

I am going to try a pempro run tomorrow on it.

Wem

#28 chboss

chboss

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 720
  • Joined: 24 Mar 2008
  • Loc: Zurich Switzerland

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:21 PM

Tracking should be almost silent otherwise there could be a mechanical problem e.g. with the spring tensioned whorm not going into the correct position or beeing stuck causing too much friction. Certainly something to check on a new mount out of the box.

Slewing will be loud to some extend with those servo drives no matter what brand the mount is... a well made stepper drive is by far more quiet!

The iEQ45 is the right choice if you want to work mobile, it is far lighter than the EQ6/Atlas.
In terms of load capability I would go with an EQ6 when permanently installed.

just my 2 cents
Chris

Attached Files



#29 EFT

EFT

    Vendor - Deep Space Products

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 2545
  • Joined: 07 May 2007
  • Loc: Phoenix, AZ

Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:14 AM

Servo motors if they are stalled / jammed and the motor control circuit is not properly done, you can burn out either the motor or the circuit (a known problem on CGEM's).


This is not a "known problem on CGEM's." It is a known issue with servo systems in general due to their basic design, be it on a telescope mount or a any other machine. That's why you use belts that can slip or gears with plastic teeth that strip before serious damage is done. I have yet to see a CGEM with damaged electronics due to a stalled motor but I have seen stripped motor gearbox gears and have seen damaged electronics in other mounts when this has happened.

#30 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8160
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:44 AM

Chris - I have to agree and it's a great compliment to the Tak 'FS' scopes :)
nice picture you posted... I've yet to get a glam shot of mine on the 45.

#31 orlyandico

orlyandico

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5487
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2009
  • Loc: Singapore

Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:09 AM

Ed, the CGEM I currently have had went back for warranty repair for a busted motor board (according to the previous owner).

I have also "heard" of others with the same issue. In fact isn't that the whole point of the uprated H-bridge in the CGEM DX? the DX has the same motors (according to Derick over on TeamCelestron) so certainly looks like a "known problem" to me.

I've heard of similar issues with Gemini 1 servos.

Funny one never hears about burned out Mach1 motor boards or motors though. Seems that a properly designed servo controller shouldn't blindly up the current when it detects a stall or slowdown.

#32 chboss

chboss

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 720
  • Joined: 24 Mar 2008
  • Loc: Zurich Switzerland

Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:27 AM

Thanks Jim, yes the color corresponds very well... ;)
And it works well, no noise problems.

regards
Chris

#33 Wembley2000

Wembley2000

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 326
  • Joined: 07 Jan 2012
  • Loc: SW Ohio

Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:33 AM

Well, the mount is still noisy while tracking but it may be quieting down slightly.

I did get a chance to run pempro lastnight, results were poor to say the least. 54 arcsec peak to peak, looks like its time to dissassemble and see if something is wrong.

Wem

#34 orlyandico

orlyandico

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5487
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2009
  • Loc: Singapore

Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:04 AM

Well my CGEM is at 42" so pretty much in the same range. As I understand from Ed this is at the bottom of the barrel for these types of mounts, but not end of the world.

#35 mgwhittle

mgwhittle

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1374
  • Joined: 24 Aug 2011
  • Loc: Chattanooga, TN

Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:58 AM

I was fortunate to have some nice skies last night so when I was out observing I listened closely again to my iEQ45. It's nearly silent while tracking and slewing is not anything that I would describe as loud. I'm thinking you might have an issue that needs either a return or servicing if you still describe tracking as "noisy".

#36 dvb

dvb

    different Syndrome.

  • *****
  • Posts: 6199
  • Joined: 18 Jun 2005
  • Loc: Vancouver, Canada

Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:08 AM


". . . looks like its time to dissassemble and see if something is wrong."

Is it time to dismantle and see if something it wrong?

And probably void the warranty in the process?

Or is it time to take advantage of the iOptron return policy and send it back for a refund?

Sounds like you are not getting the support from iOptron you should be getting. To be told "some are noisier" is a very poor comment on their Quality Control and on their customer support.

#37 EFT

EFT

    Vendor - Deep Space Products

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 2545
  • Joined: 07 May 2007
  • Loc: Phoenix, AZ

Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:13 AM

Ed, the CGEM I currently have had went back for warranty repair for a busted motor board (according to the previous owner).

I have also "heard" of others with the same issue. In fact isn't that the whole point of the uprated H-bridge in the CGEM DX? the DX has the same motors (according to Derick over on TeamCelestron) so certainly looks like a "known problem" to me.

I've heard of similar issues with Gemini 1 servos.

Funny one never hears about burned out Mach1 motor boards or motors though. Seems that a properly designed servo controller shouldn't blindly up the current when it detects a stall or slowdown.


I've seen motor boards go bad in both servo and stepper systems and only one that I can say with a fair amount of confidence was the result of an axis jam. In fact, I have seen more motors and gears damaged because of this than motor boards. Unless there is conclusive proof that it was the result of an overload due to a jammed axis, then it is more likely that it is just an unrelated failure (something unfortunately common in less expensive mounts). The greater power that the CGEM DX board is able to apply actually presents the risk of doing damage to the motor gearbox should a jam occur. I have never seen anything to suggest that the CGEM DX board is any more protected from overload, only that it can supply more power.

As usual, you get what you pay for. Perhaps the AP mounts have better overload protection built in or a better clutch slip system that avoids complete jams, but the fact that this problem can happen on Synta, Meade, and Losmandy mounts (and who knows which others) suggests that it is not a known CGEM problem but, as I said, a known problem with servo systems (probably less-expensive servo systems) in general. You can't apply your personal experience (or the reported experience of a previous owner) to all CGEM mounts.

#38 orlyandico

orlyandico

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5487
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2009
  • Loc: Singapore

Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:26 AM

Ok Ed, I believe we agree on this but your definition is more rigorous. I shouldn't be picking on the CGEM. :grin:

#39 brianb11213

brianb11213

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9047
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2009
  • Loc: 55.215N 6.554W

Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:28 AM

I was fortunate to have some nice skies last night so when I was out observing I listened closely again to my iEQ45. It's nearly silent while tracking and slewing is not anything that I would describe as loud.

Same here. My iEQ45 is nowhere near silent when slewing but considerably quieter than either my HEQ5 or my CPC1100. When tracking it is silent to all intents and purposes ... it's actually very hard to hear it running from a range of one foot in a very quiet room, let alone in a normal outdoor environment where there is always some wind / surf / traffic noise.

#40 Wembley2000

Wembley2000

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 326
  • Joined: 07 Jan 2012
  • Loc: SW Ohio

Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:15 AM

". . . looks like its time to dissassemble and see if something is wrong."

Is it time to dismantle and see if something it wrong?

And probably void the warranty in the process?

Or is it time to take advantage of the iOptron return policy and send it back for a refund?

Sounds like you are not getting the support from iOptron you should be getting. To be told "some are noisier" is a very poor comment on their Quality Control and on their customer support.


Yeah, ioptron support actually sent me 2 set of instructions. One of them shows how to disassemble the motor assembly to get the worm out of the block, and adjusting the worm. I will send them a note about voiding the warranty if I undertake thier procedures. Also the worm timing belt pulleys are not made very true, they both (ra and dec)have a quite a bit of wobble to them.

Wem

#41 Wembley2000

Wembley2000

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 326
  • Joined: 07 Jan 2012
  • Loc: SW Ohio

Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:10 PM

Tech support got back with me, they are quick, they basically said if I feel comfortable doing it and since I had there blessing it would not void the warranty. This is nice, a company that will let you work on stuff under warranty, 2 thumbs up!

Wem

#42 dvb

dvb

    different Syndrome.

  • *****
  • Posts: 6199
  • Joined: 18 Jun 2005
  • Loc: Vancouver, Canada

Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:46 PM

Great! I'll look forward to see how you make out.

Fortunately, mine seems to be working well - it has managed my 10" Newt, at 48" and 30 lb + very well. I used the iOptron balance utility, which seems to have worked well.

My main niggles are the plastic spreader, which almost negates the lightness of the mount - putting one hand under the spreader to carry the mount almost slices the fingers. I'll be wrapping some duct tape around the three vanes until I can figure out something better.

And, those azimuth adjustment bolts, which are "square cut" on the ends, instead of being rounded, which makes the azimuth adjustment pretty rough. I'll see if I can find some replacement bolts.

But, on the whole, I'm impressed.

#43 Midnight Dan

Midnight Dan

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11297
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2008
  • Loc: Hilton, NY, Yellow Zone (Bortle 4.5)

Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:57 PM

Sounds like you are not getting the support from iOptron you should be getting. To be told "some are noisier" is a very poor comment on their Quality Control and on their customer support.


I wouldn't agree with this. I've found their customer support to to be top notch. If a company replaced a mount every time someone thought it was a bit noisy, they'd quickly go out of business.

Fact is, some mounts ARE noisier than others, and some people are more sensitive to noise than others. Seems prudent for a company to push back a little to avoid a replacement for what could just be a very minor issue. It's then the customer's responsibility to persist if the issue is truly a serious one - which is exactly what he did. Sounds like iOptron responded quickly and appropriately.

-Dan

#44 CounterWeight

CounterWeight

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8160
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Palo alto, CA.

Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:40 PM

Agree here about iOptron support - IME they are really trying their best and doing a great job at it - this from my experience with my 45. I don't penalize them for being honest, it's refreshing IMO for a company offering product in this price range - if not outstanding. Knowledgable folks working with the customer to get the job done is outstanding support in my book. This is a company commitment to service, and I think though it's not a mach1, providing the same level of knowledgable and honest support to the customer is just fantastic.

#45 Wembley2000

Wembley2000

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 326
  • Joined: 07 Jan 2012
  • Loc: SW Ohio

Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:19 PM

Hello,

I just purchased an IEq45 mount. I have a couple questions for owners of this mount.

1. Is your mount excessivly noisy? Slewing it sounds like a small jet plane taking off and during tracking i can hear it from 20 foot away, no kidding... I have had both an LX200 and a cgem and they were much quieter.
2. Hand controller is excessivly slugish, the dec+ button sometimes takes may hard and long presses to get working.
3. The dec motor sounds like a telephone modem most the time.

I have put an email into ioptron tech but I want to hear some owner opinions. Most of what I have read here and other places have been positive, but after my first night with it I am less than impressed.

Periodic error is not good, backlash in dec is high (setpoint of 850). Tracking while guiding is not good, due to the high PE.

I am going to give tech support and the mount time, but it may be going back.

Thanks,

Wem


An update:

The mount is quieting down, still not silent but not nearly as annoying.
Tech support sent me a new hand controller that is much more responsive.

I can't say enough about their tech support, they have been very responsive and very helpful with my issues.

I still have a few bugs to iron out, I have been having some issues getting round stars while guiding. I am pretty sure I will be able to get all these issues worked out though






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics