Jump to content


Photo

StarShoot Autoguider (SSAG) 3MP

  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#1 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:28 PM

I have been using old StarShoot Autoguider (SSAG); just tried a new 3MP SSAG but am unable to get it going. Have called Orion to no avail, folks at the tech support were not very helpful. One person running the show pretty much at their tech support.

In short, I get 'Unknown device' in Windows7 64-bit and can't seem to get the new drivers recognize the new camera. I ‘do’ get a 'Ding…' when I plug it in; so Windows knows there is an unknown device. I tried new drivers as well as the one that came with the camera on a CD without any luck. The red LED on camera doesn't come on or I have yet to see it on. I have been using PHD 1.13.0b fine with old SSAG. Help would be appreciated before I pack it send it back.

While we are on the subject what other autoguiders are good ones; e.g., between SBIG ST-i and Loadstar Autoguider, which one is better? Are there any others in that class?

#2 Mantis707

Mantis707

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 75
  • Joined: 14 Aug 2012

Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:33 PM

Theres also a SSAG 'solitaire' autoguider....I am wondering basically about the same guiders, including the 'solitaire'

#3 davebuechler

davebuechler

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 663
  • Joined: 21 Aug 2011
  • Loc: Red River Gorge Kentucky

Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:43 PM

I suggest trying to download the latest version of PHD. 1.13.2 from Stark Labs.

#4 Mkofski

Mkofski

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Joined: 19 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA

Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:44 PM

I'm just getting into AP myself but have seen that everyone with the Loadstar loves it.

#5 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:47 PM

I'll try the new PHD, but I would like to hear from the folks about the basic problem of camera not getting recognized in Windows (i.e., unknown device). I have tried supplying the downloaded and CD drivers that it came with, to no avail. Wondering if camera is defective at hardware level?

#6 cclark

cclark

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: 29 Jul 2008

Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:02 PM

If what you have is what I think it is (based on looking at Orion's site), I believe it is a SSPIAG (Starshoot Planetary Imager & Autoguider). I would suggest searching using that phrase (either SSPIAG or the name) and see what comes up. I have seen a few reports of issues, but I am not familiar enough with it to help troubleshoot further.

I hope this helps,

Chris

#7 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:25 PM

I think I may have figured out the problem; but it was quite convoluted, and onus lies on Orion not properly documenting it or even supporting it when I call tech support. The guy at tech support simply said he didn't know much about these cameras, end of story.

In short, following is the difference in folder structure that gets created when you install 1.3MP drivers (Download from the website...) vs. 3MP drivers (that came on the CD with the camera). I ended up manually pointing the 'Unknown device' to 'C:\Program Files (x86)\QHYCCD\QHY5T_Drivers\driver' folder which has SSHRPIAG.inf file and the new drivers for 3MP camera. At this point, OS ended up recognizing the camera.

Note: At some point I did executed SS3MP_Driver.exe from the CD to fix the issue but that didn't help and probably was not the right approach anyway. But, note where they stuck the EXEs anyway, under docs folder.

To make long story short, here is what you need to do to make 3MP working:

1. Let the CD auto-run.
2. Click 'Install Camera Driver' on the GUI that comes up.
3. At this point your camera should get recognized; if it doesn't which was the case with me, follow the next steps.
4. Open device manager and update driver by pointing to 'C:\Program Files (x86)\QHYCCD\QHY5T_Drivers\driver' folder that got created during step #2.
5. Windows should be able to recognize the camera and 'Unknown device' should disappear from the 'Device Manager'.

Note: Above instructions apply to Windows7 (mine was 64-bit, but instructions should work for 32-bit as well.)

IMPORTANT: I have yet to test the camera with the PHD/scope yet, but at least 'Unknown device' issue in Windows has been resolved. Pending PHD testing… I am able to connect to the camera via Orion PlanCap software that came on the CD, and camera seem to be working.

Edit: I had the call escalated at Orion so someone higher up called and I gave them what I have written here. Situation is such at Camera works with 'PlanCam' software but I still can't connect via PHD. I get 'no camera' error. I don't have ST-4 cable plugged-in at this time, but will try it soon and update what transpires. Another strange behavior I and Orion engineer noted is that although camera is working with PlanCam, there is NO Orion device to be found under 'Universal Serial Bus Controllers' which is puzzling. Bottom line, PHD testing will tell the real story. Stay tuned...

Attached Files



#8 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:03 PM

Update: Here is where new Autoguider ends up being in Windows 'Device Manager'.

Attached Files



#9 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:10 PM

Here is the composite of the SSAG 3MP problem with PHD that still remains to be resolved...

Attached Files



#10 jerryyyyy

jerryyyyy

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1296
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2011
  • Loc: Stanford, California

Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:00 AM

Suggest you post the problem over at the Yahoo group:

http://tech.groups.y...onomy-software/

Pretty knowledgable over there.

BTW I use the SSAutoguider selection NOT the SSAutoguider and Planetary Imager... this is an old product.

#11 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:44 PM

I use the SSAutoguider selection NOT the SSAutoguider and Planetary Imager... this is an old product.


I have used both options, error is the same. 3MP 'IS' the Planetary Imager and Guider by the way.

#12 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:46 PM

I'm just getting into AP myself but have seen that everyone with the Loadstar loves it.


Thanks; I am tempted to get Lodestar as well.

#13 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:00 PM

So let me ask the question one last time before I pack this thing and send it back.

Has anyone used 3MP SSAG with PHD for guiding successfully?

Camera works with PlanCam software that came with it, so hardware is not the problem and camera is working. It just will NOT work with PHD; at least I can't get it to even after getting a call back from SSAG engineer (not the tech support who simply refused to help citing they don't know these cameras and can't help) who is looking into it.

On a side note, very dissatisfied with Orion tech support; seems like one or at best two tech folks (Rich/Marshall) who don't know about the products are taking the calls! When I called only, one was available to support entire Orion tech support call queue.

#14 rmollise

rmollise

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15805
  • Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:06 PM

Get on the Stark Labs Yahoogroup and ask Craig about this...

#15 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:05 PM

Get on the Stark Labs Yahoogroup and ask Craig about this...


Will do; Thx. May go with Lodestar instead. Not worth spending too much time on SSAG when it should work out of the box. Have been using 1.3MP SSAG for long time, guess 3MP needs work.

#16 SMigol

SMigol

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 318
  • Joined: 30 Jul 2010
  • Loc: California, USA

Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:58 PM

I have used this camera with PHD. I used ASCOM camera controls in PHD to get it to connect.

Note that you will set the sensitivity within ASCOm when it connects, so testing during the day will require a reconnect at night to set the sensitivity properly.

When mating this camera to the ST80, I was able to guide on bright stars. However, because of the small size of the pixels and the color matrix, sensitivity is pretty weak.

It does better as a planetary camera.

#17 WillCarney

WillCarney

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
  • Joined: 08 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Bloomington, ILL

Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:09 PM

While I have not used the new camera-guider I have used a SSAG for a number of years. Every time I have a problem is the ASCOM gone FUBAR. I reinstall ASCOM then the camera driver and it works fine. I have done this at least seven or eight times on my Vista laptop.

It does not matter if you choose ASCOM or SSAG in PHD. If your ASCOM is FUBAR it still won't work.

William

#18 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:31 PM

I have used this camera with PHD. I used ASCOM camera controls in PHD to get it to connect.


I don't use ASCOM; I use ST-4 guiding which doesn't require ASCOM. That's how I have been using old 1.3MP SSAG for long time and my intention was to use it the same way with new 3MP SSAG, which doesn't seem to work. In short, ASCOM is NOT needed for ST-4 guiding.

#19 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5491
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:41 PM

I reinstall ASCOM then the camera driver and it works fine


You must be using serial guiding? I think ST-4 is much simpler.

#20 jerryyyyy

jerryyyyy

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1296
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2011
  • Loc: Stanford, California

Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:29 AM

I posted the question over at the Yahoo Group. They saved me when I stated using Ph.D..

RESPONSE:

Not sure if it's the same. I am using the Orion Starshoot 3MP Planetary Imager & Autoguider with PhD and Win7 64-bit. Works perfectly for me.

MarkS

On 19 September 2012 01:28, jerryyyyyyyyyy wrote:



There is a person at CloudyNights that cannot get PhD to work with this, I believe, new variant of SSAG. He has a 64-bit system and it appears to be a driver problem. Camera produces "Failed to Open the Camera" error message when attempting to select it.

Any hope here?


#21 WillCarney

WillCarney

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
  • Joined: 08 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Bloomington, ILL

Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:37 AM

I reinstall ASCOM then the camera driver and it works fine


You must be using serial guiding? I think ST-4 is much simpler.


The SSAG plugs into the USB. Uses ST-4 to connect to Atlas.
Last night it screwed up again. Had to unintall ASCOM and reinstall. Uninstalled PHD then it worked fine "On-camera" after it's reinstall.

Despite using ST-4 if ASCOM is FUBAR it won't work. At least on my setup.

I was getting the "can't find camera" error. Which meant the drivers were FUBAR.
William

#22 rmollise

rmollise

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15805
  • Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:24 AM

It's not clear to me exactly where your problem lies...

If the camera is not recognized by Windows and a driver properly installed, you can forget missing with PHD, it will never work.

If this is your problem, the first thing to do is delete the present drivers. Download the drivers for your OS from Orion, and install, paying particular attention to any documentation for the camera that says anything about _when_ you should plug in the camera during the process.

#23 WillCarney

WillCarney

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
  • Joined: 08 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Bloomington, ILL

Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:09 AM

For some reason on my computer it's always been a problem with ASCOM. Most of the time I uninstall it and reinstall it and the problem goes away for awhile.

Like last night. The computer recognized the camera but PHD would NOT connect till I reinstalled ASCOM. Did not matter if I used "on camera" or "ASCOM" in the PHD menu. It still would not connect till ASCOM was reinstalled. This has happened at least ten or twelve times now and it's ALWAYS the ASCOM gone FUBAR.

Other laptops may vary but mine screws up ASCOM routinely and reinstalling it almost always fixes the problem.

William

#24 rmollise

rmollise

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15805
  • Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:54 AM

If you have to use ASCOM, it's because PHD is not supporting the camera, I suppose. If the computer recognizes the camera, next step is to get with Craig on the Yahoogroup.

#25 jerryyyyy

jerryyyyy

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1296
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2011
  • Loc: Stanford, California

Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:22 PM

From the Yahoo Group:

No tricks with the install. But when I connect to my camera, I have to choose the Ascom v5 driver, not the 3MP driver. Apparently, the driver is outdated and Orion hasn't updated it yet.

Everything else worked out of the box.

MarkS

On 18 September 2012 23:00, jerryyyyyyyyyy wrote:

Thanks, let me post this over there. No tricks with the install?






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics