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Try my data - LBN 438 - 14 hours integration time

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#1 SL63 AMG

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:24 AM

Try my data - LBN 438 - 14.1 hours integration

Well it's clear I have no processing skills and I can venture to say those skills won't come easy, so I decided to let you all have a crack at my data.

What is available
=================

Fast download
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4 files, Stacked LRGB, calibrated, but no flats

L - LBN 438 L.fit size 32,544KB
R - LBN 438 R.fit size 32,544KB
G - LBN 438 R.fit size 32,541KB
B - LBN 438 G.fit size 32,544KB


Slow download - for the real adventurous
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Folders
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Note: all images are binned 1x1

Root Folder
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-Dark Master bin1x1 -30C 1200 seconds.fit size 32,541KB
-Bias Master bin1x1 -30C.fit size 32,541KB

Note: dark/bias are stacks of 40 files.


Luminance Folder
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- LBN 438-001L.fit size 16,274KB
- ...
- LBN 438-023L.fit size 16,274KB

Red Folder
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- LBN 438-001R.fit size 16,274KB
- ...
- LBN 438-013R.fit size 16,274KB

Green Folder
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- LBN 438-001G.fit size 16,274KB
- ...
- LBN 438-013G.fit size 16,274KB

Blue Folder
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- LBN 438-001B.fit size 16,274KB
- ...
- LBN 438-013B.fit size 16,274KB


How to get the data
===================

FTP - FTP://ai.kopacz.com

username: cnusers
password: n0cloud$plz

When you log in, change your working directory to LBN438. You will see the four stacked LRGB files, the two master darks and the folders for LRGB originals.


NOTES
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Note: I am loading the color now and I will put up the flats within an hour. They will be in a flats folder, with LRGB sub folders

Note: LBN 438-003G.fit has an airplane running through it and I couldn't get rid of it with data reduction. Good luck. I left it out of my stacks.

Note: All of the color images contain a meridian flip. The first six are on one side then the last seven on the other, so you will need to rotate them. There may be differences in the luminance as those were captured over multiple days.

Note: I am very green at astrophotography, so my data is far from perfect, so please don't complain ;)

#2 Lightning

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:50 AM

lol, your Website would say you're a very experienced astrophotographer! Very beautiful images.

But thanks, I'll give your data a go tomorrow.

#3 SL63 AMG

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:01 AM

Thanks for the compliment.

I processed the LBN438, NGC6960, vdB141 and M33.

SH2-155, IC5146 and M42 images were processed by my friend John Bozeman.

I have good equipment which helps, but I am really struggling with LDN438 and many other images.

Only my best images are on Astrobin. The real work is here

#4 stephen63

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:05 PM

Dave, here's my go at the data. I did the DDP in CCDStack and the rest in CS5. I put the full size jpg on flikr. I used gradx to fix the vignetting the best I could.
http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream

Attached Files



#5 AstroGabe

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

Dave, you have some excellent data. I only wish I could have skies dark enough to capture these types of faint clouds. I took a stab at it w/ pixinsight. Here's the result.


Higher resolution available here:
http://www.flickr.co...gabe/8045682775

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#6 rigel123

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:30 PM

Nice Dave, here is my go at it. I didn't use the flats, just Gradient Exterminator in PS CS4 and I also did a desaturation of the background. I didn't have to play much with the color. I did however put the RGB together and then blurred it with a Gaussian Blur before layering the Luminance on. You need to look at the higher res on the Flickr site as you have some great data there. The compression really makes this noisy on the CN site.

Posted Image
LBN RGB jpg large by Rigel123, on Flickr

Make sure you go and select the Original Size, there are some really beautiful details in that nebula!

#7 rigel123

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:50 PM

In case you would like the full sized TIF, here is a link to it.

http://www.mediafire...l0bw7slojkye3jp

#8 DeanS

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:38 AM

Here you go. But this is actually one Dave sent me while first working on it. Dave I think you are very close to getting the processing down, just you picked an extremely difficult type of object to learn on. And you should go ahead and start learning how to do flats as they help a lot at bringing out finer details.

Dean

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#9 YuriyT

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:38 AM

Dave, thanks a lot for sharing your data, this is my try w/PixInsight.
Full resolution is available on Flickr.
There are SO MANY background galaxies visible!

Posted Image
LBN438 by Dave SL63_AMG by yuriy.toropin, on Flickr

#10 DeanS

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:22 PM

Very nice Yuriy!!!

All of your images are outstanding as well.

Dean

#11 SL63 AMG

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:14 PM

What can I say? Wow! Thank you so much.

All of you have really made this data look really good. It is impressive to see this object come to life. It is interesting to see each of the different processing results.

It is nice to know that my data acquisition time wasn't wasted. I was really concerned after capturing all of these subs. When I compared my processing results with images produced by people with less time on this object, I was really disappointed.

But now, particularly after seeing Yuri's image, I am sure my time was well spent. I really like capturing the data, but my ability to process that data is very limited.

For the past week I have been going through Adam Blocks video tutorials, but due to the fact I really don't know anything about Photoshop I would really like to concentrate on PixInsight, but the online PixInsight tutorials are just not thorough and are not getting the job done. I need some one on one time with an expert!

Some of the videos on PixInsight website assume too much existing knowledge and Harry's video's are mostly for one shot color cameras. I have many gaps in my PixInsight knowledge and I am not sure how to fill them in.

Adam Blocks videos are thorough and he doesn't leave out steps or assume you have knowledge about what he is presenting. Perhaps I should just learn Photoshop first, and then move to PixInsight. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Again, thanks to everyone that took a stab at my data. I appreciate it greatly.

Yuri, your image is awesome. I found 6 or 7 background galaxies that I had no idea were even in the data. In fact, the one at the top just right of center looked like nebulosity to me in the raw images.

Simply amazing!

#12 SL63 AMG

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:28 PM


Here is a overlay of the image with TheSkyX.

The face on galaxy at the top just left of center is PGC 69439 and the face on galaxy just above the second red star to the left of the skinny center part of the nebula is PGC-69518 and is estimated to be 195 million lights years distant.

On the right hand side of the nebula, just to the left and up from the largest red star is PGC-69400, another face on galaxy.

Another clear face on galaxy can be found in the bottom left hand portion of the image, near the largest bright blue star. Just under the top left hand difraction spike is PGC 2101898.

Overall, I have counted 8 very distinct galaxies and over a dozen including some small smudges.


Posted Image

#13 YuriyT

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:25 AM

Dave, Dean, thanks a lot for your kind evaluation of my really fast processing example!

BTW, below is the image with galaxies annotated in PixInsight, object list is identical to what Dave has on his overlay.

As for the learning PixInsight then, without desire to start another "hollywar", I would like to say that its learning curve is not that steep as usually believed. There are videos and tutorials that will give some ideas for start. But the best will be to sit next to somebody who is familiar with PixInsight and check how typical steps, from calibration to postprocessing, are done.

Dave, thanks a lot for sharing great data!

Sincerely,
Yuriy

Posted Image
LBN438 by Dave SL63_AMG Annotated by yuriy.toropin, on Flickr

Direct link to 100% resolution.

#14 rigel123

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:51 AM

No holy war necessary Yuri, your image proves that Pixinsight works, but I would have to agree with your comment that you need to sit down with someone to walk through the steps. I have also tried the program and the tutorials and just can't get the hang of it. Like Dave mentions, Adam Blocks videos on Photoshop are great with the step by step. The tutorials on Pixinsight just seem to "assume" you know what is happening. Maybe you need to make a set of instructional videos and I would bet there would be a "paying" audience that would love to get their hands on a really good step by step tutorial. :)

#15 DeanS

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:52 AM

Warren Keller is developing tutorials for PixInsight and is releasing chapters as he goes. I have signed up but have not had the time to sit down long enough to work thru them. Will be a good winter time project.

Dean

#16 StevenMx

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:34 PM

Hello Dave,
Thank you for sharing your data files. This is my go w/PixInsight. I really had a good time processing them! Great job in acquisition.
Dave's full size LBN 438

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#17 StevenMx

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:26 PM

Ok, I think I got processing envy from Yuris image. I tweaked some things. I have a wider range of colors now and removed most of the blue star contrast. I have a tighter airy disk on the blue stars but not as tight as Yuris. I guess I will need to ask him how he is doing it…
Which of my two images do you guys like better?
Dave's larger LBN 438vB.

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#18 SL63 AMG

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:08 PM

I definitely like your first round better. If you look closely, you bring out much more of the finer detail of the dust, all the way to the edge of the field.

Also, if you look at your histograms, the first rendition has the red shifted slightly lower than the green and blue, while the second rendition is shifted really high.

Perhaps a balance between the both might produce the best image? I certainly prefer your first try.

Thanks for processing this data. I can't wait until I have the skills to do it myself! :help:

Until then, I'll stick with data acquisition. :rainbow:

#19 Warhen

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

Dean, Thank you very much for mentioning our series. Beyond my one real skill as a documentarian, I'm fortunate to have Rogelio Bernal Andreo as a partner, and Juan Conejero, Steve Leshin, Josh Lake, and Harry Page to bounce things off of. I do believe this will bring some of the long needed context and chronology to PI's mysteries- the what to do and when to do it! Enjoy Dean and thanks for your friendship. Dave, it was good speaking with you tonight. The guys really stepped up here to show you what is possible with your data.

#20 StevenMx

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:21 AM

Hi Dave,
I have been away a few days but finally got some time to try your suggestions. It took some finagling but I was able to bring back some of the extended brown nebula over the deeper purple nebula. You were right, I really like it better. I have another version that has even more of the brown nebula but appears over contrasted imo. If you would like to see it, let me know and I will post it in staging on Astrobin. When I tried to remove the brighter star “halos” it seemed to remove more faint data than I wanted so they are a little brighter than I would like. I especially like the deeper sky purple nebula. I hope this isn’t a processing mistake but that data must be there. Every time I stretch the histogram it pops out with very little color saturation or curves transforms on my part. Hope you like it. I have really enjoyed working on this as it was a great challenge and good learning experience since there was almost no neutral background to work with, so much nebula there! Btw...I have counted 13-16 possible galaxies!
Dave's larger LBN 438vC.

Attached Files



#21 SL63 AMG

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:09 PM

Well that's what I thought, the red just pops out so it must be legitimate data. Unfortunately, it can quickly over saturate the image and everything in it, so you must have been very careful in your processing in order to preserve it and the brown nebula. Well done.

I have seen this called an extended red emmission nebula (EME). I am not sure what that means.

I guess one sure way to see if the data is truly hydrogen is for me to capture 10 hours of 3nm Ha and see what's there. Of course, if I do that, someone will need to belend it with the rest of the data.. HAHA! More work.

#22 StevenMx

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

Well that's what I thought, the red just pops out so it must be legitimate data. Unfortunately, it can quickly over saturate the image and everything in it, so you must have been very careful in your processing in order to preserve it and the brown nebula. Well done.

I have seen this called an extended red emmission nebula (EME). I am not sure what that means.

I guess one sure way to see if the data is truly hydrogen is for me to capture 10 hours of 3nm Ha and see what's there. Of course, if I do that, someone will need to belend it with the rest of the data.. HAHA! More work.

Never doubted it was legitimate, something was there, just hoping I wasn’t doing something wrong processing it and turning it purple. You aren’t kidding its tricky! It easily overcomes the other data when stretching. I have never integrated Ha, but if you are willing to spend the time imaging I will certainly give it a shot! It is getting cold here and snow is just around the corner. It will give me something to do this winter. I don’t have a dome so don’t know if I will be doing much imaging the colder it gets.

#23 StevenMx

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:23 PM

Hi Dave,
I tried a couple more techniques on your image and I think I am satisfied with this one. There is a lot more depth and 3D feel to it. When you zoom in on the full scale image, I especially like the structures around both sides of the tail of the central nebula and branching off to the upper right. You can clearly see the cloud structures. You did a great job gathering this data. Thanks again for sharing.
Dave's larger LBN 438vD

Attached Files



#24 kozzina

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:01 AM

hello dave, thank you for sharing your data and here is my go with photoshop. bigger version on image click.

Posted Image

#25 SL63 AMG

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:08 PM

Steve,

Your image is very nice. You did a great job with the stars. Did you use a star mask? I think Yuriy's image has some artifacts in the star centers, but yours are very clean. Your image looks awesome.

Kozzinna, your image looks fantastic also. It's amazing to see all of the different versions using different processing methods. I am still struggling with PixInsight, though Warren Kellers new videos are helping me move forward.

Unfortunately, my skills end at preprocessing. I can capture the data, calibrate it and stack it, otherwise I understand very few processing procedures in PixInisght or Photoshop. It really sucks being limited like this. I feel like my hands are tied.

Anyway, I just posted some dusty data for vdB152 which you are welcome to process. I had a limited number of subs so it's not the best data, but I plan to capture more tonight.

The forcast for tonight is excellent transparancy and above average to excellent seeing conditions.

Soon I'll have so much data I will need lots of friends to help me process it all!






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