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O'Meara Deep Sky Companions - Southern Gems

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#1 faackanders2

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:24 PM

Just pre ordered O'Meara Deep Sky Companions - Southern Gems. Amazon expects it to ship in January 2013, but Steve has to finish it first. I love his series, and even though I probably won't get to see many of the ojects unless I travel with binos or a small scope (or possibly rent a large dob), it should be a great read. After all he already plucked out his top 436-440 objects with the first 4 mostly northern objects with same guidelines/parameters Messier had (except for Sir Patrick Caldwell Moore's list).

P.S. I still think this indirectly leads to a more detailed Hershell 400 Object List in the future. I wonder if this would finally include them all?

#2 helpwanted

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

Part of me wants it to complete the series of books I already have, the other part says I don't need it, since I live in the north, and will most likely not travel that far south.

#3 faackanders2

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:04 PM

It may not sell as well as the others in the Northern Hemisphere, but it may add more sales of the others in the series for those who live in the Souther Hemisphere, who buy this book first and discover the rest of the series after.

P.S. Hoping there may be some overlap, like the Caldwell objects, so I may be able to see some.

#4 edwincjones

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

......................................... since I live in the north, and will most likely not travel that far south.


one can only hope, dream

edj

#5 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:12 AM

I'm not a world traveler, so I doubt if I'll pick up this one. I do travel to other worlds ... but from here in the Northern Hemisphere.

:grin:
Mike

#6 edwincjones

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

I'm not a world traveler, so I doubt if I'll pick up this one. I do travel to other worlds ... but from here in the Northern Hemisphere.

:grin:
Mike


then the book may be the only way you will see the southern gems

edj

#7 faackanders2

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

I'm not a world traveler, so I doubt if I'll pick up this one. I do travel to other worlds ... but from here in the Northern Hemisphere.

:grin:
Mike


then the book may be the only way you will see the southern gems

edj


I enjoy looking at Hubble images, even though I will never be able to see objects that way in my visual scopes. And I enjoy watching the travel channel to see many places I will never be able to aford to visit (but I can dream wish to eventually visit before I kick the bucket). :grin: :jump: :tonofbricks: too late, :lol: :roflmao:

#8 edwincjones

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

after my above post, I ordered the book

I did go to New Zealand in 2003,
had a wonderful time and would like to return-some day
but I doubt that I will make it
so I will enjoy the book and dream

edj

#9 Sarkikos

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

I'm not a world traveler, so I doubt if I'll pick up this one. I do travel to other worlds ... but from here in the Northern Hemisphere.

:grin:
Mike


then the book may be the only way you will see the southern gems

edj


Yes, either a book or photos on the internet or TV.

:grin:
Mike

#10 Traveler

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:55 AM

Is there any info which gem's Steve selected for this guide?

#11 faackanders2

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:16 PM

Is there any info which gem's Steve selected for this guide?


For that you have to wait till the book comes out, which I believe is now March 2013.

I am wondering if it will all be below the celestrial equator (since this would be the first out of 5 books for the south), or if he may do a reverse Messier-like selection, where some object may be in the Northern hemisphere (that can be seen from the southern hemisphere).
I would expect alot of them to be Herschell objects.

#12 faackanders2

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:34 PM

Received the book last week. Intent to honor James Dunlop who discovered most and cataloged all of the "best" objects in his book (aka "forgotten" Messier of the Southern Hemisphere).
120 objects in total (33 of which are duplicates of the Caldwell list, but excludes SMC & LMC objects which may become another/next book). Apendix of John Dunlop. Appendix of 7 maps containing all the objects with the object number bands on the top so you know which chart to use - the other DSC series should do charts like this; but I still like the inside front and back cover maps of the Messier & Caldwell that I wish this one also had).
Ordered from 0 to 24 hrs RA (like the rest except for Caldwell North to South).

#13 faackanders2

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:39 PM

43 galaxies
36 globular star clusters
30 open star clusters
3 nebule
6 planatary nebulae
2 dark nebulae
120 total Dunlop objects (33 duplicate from Caldwell)

#14 obrazell

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 01:39 AM

I think the next is the second edition of his Messier objecst book due, allgedly, in October.

Owen

#15 faackanders2

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:52 PM

In addition to repeating 33 Caldwell objects, he also repeats 7 Messier objects mostly in Sagitarius (M83,m6,m8,m69,m22,m54,m55).
All objects were all listed in Dunlops catalog, and most were discovered by him.
Since the Messier objects are so well known, I feel these could have been in the appendix, except if Dunlop was the discoverer. O'mearea combined M6 and B283, but did not list brighter M7 which is closer to B283. I always found M7 far more impressing than M6 especially sinceyou can see it naked eye in the south.
If you subtract the Caldwell and Messier Objects you have 120-33-7=80 new objects. I wish O'Meara would have provided 110 new objects and listed thes 40 repeats in the index.
Observers in the Southern Hemisphere will like it since Dunlop probably selected the best of the best from what he could see. Omeara selected the best 120 out of these 620 cataloged Dunlop objects (don't know how many he actually discovered).

#16 faackanders2

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:00 PM

Of the 120 objects listed in O'Meara's "Southern Gems", 83 were discovered by James Dunlop all in 1826, 20 were discovered by Lacaille, 9 were discovered by Wiliam Herschell, 1 was discovered by Messier (M54/SC109), 1 was discovered by Cacciatore (C78/SG101), 1 was discovered by Hevelius (M22/SG108), 1 was discovere by Flamsteed (M8/SG100), and 4 were known since antiquity: C92/SG48, M6/SG94, C80/SG62(Ptolemy/Halley), & C76/SG85. All were cataloged by Dunlop as part of 629 nebulae and clusters in the Royal Society of London's "Philosophical Transactions" in 1828. Before that Lacaille catalogued 42 nebulae and clusters in 1755 (16 years before Messier's first list of 45 objects ending in M45 of course). So I guess the book honors both Lacaille and Dunlop.

#17 SusanY

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:55 PM

Just ordered my "Southern Gems" - will receive it within the week! While I was about it, I also ordered O'Meara's "Herschel 400 Observing Guide". They both look brill - I can't wait, sometimes a week seems awfully long.

#18 turtle86

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

I wasn't going to order this, but then I have all the others, I was able to get it for about $25 on Amazon, and I do live far enough south to see many of the objects included. I've only gone through portions of the book so far, but like what I see. Anyway, observers who like the other O'Meara books will like this one too.

#19 faackanders2

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:33 PM

If I had to rank order O'Meara's Deep Sky Companion Series books this would be my order:
1. Messier Objects
2. Hidden Treasures - Easier to see than many of the Caldwell objects
3. Secret Deep
4. Caldwell Objects - Some more difficult than the rst of the series, but some are the next best after Messier's.
5. Southern Gems - Alot of duplication with Caldwell objects, since Dunlop was the discoverer and/or had these objects in his list.

For the Caldwell duplications O'Meara says he rewrote and made more current. Comparing C72(SG1) and C106(SG2) writeups between both books:
Both of these Caldwell Objects were linked with another Caldwell object, but in Southern Gems they were seperate objects. The Southern Gem Objects all add Dunlops comments, and the wide field maps are only in the appendix (but have all Southern Gem Objects shown; whereas in Calwell Objects the wide field maps were directly before the detailed map of each Caldwell object. Since the appendix maps will be used most often I wish one of each map would have been in the test before each section/cluster of Southern Gem Objects.
The Caldwell (& Messier) Object books had overall sky maps showing locations of all the objects on the inside cover (wish all the other books in the series did the same).
As far of actual written text, 90-95% of text on each individual object is the same although paragraphs may have been slightly reordered and/or intros to the paragraphs may have been re-written. Photos/images are same or better. Southern Gems all have NGC or common name numbers on the detailed charts (but the wide field appendix charts only show Southern Gem numbers), so I also wrote Caldwell and Southern Gem numbers on the detailed charts for all objects shown, making the charts easier to cross reference.
Finally Caldwell orders objects from North to South, so you know your observing limit from your lattitude; Southern Gem could have done the same, but instead chose to order from 00h to 24h Right Assention as the rest of the series (perhaps because it made the wide field appendix charts close to number order (ie. Chart 1 objects 115-120, 1-3, & 5; Chart 2 objects 80, & 82-114; Chart 3 objects 55-84; ...; Chart 7 objects 1-18).

P.S. I believe O'Meara hinted that his next in the series will be Large and Small Magellenic Clouds (possibly a Southern Gem 2 book) since these objects were intentionally not listed/excluded except in Appendix B - 42 additional Southern Gems (more than the 20 additional objects he normally lists).

P.S.S. Unsure how many Hershell 400 objects are still not covered in his Deep Sky Companion Series; but I speculate when he has all or most he will likely incorporate these into a revised Hershell 400 object book. I enjoy O'Meara's writing and detail more in the Deep Sky Companion series.

Finally I wish S&T (or O'Meara/Cambridge) would make the one 8x10" page double sided laminated maps for the Hidden Treasures, Secret Deep, and Southern Gems as they have for the Messier & Caldwell. And/Or have a 5 page folded laminated map of the entire 5 series collection (but this would become obsolete when O'Meara adds another to his series). Hard to believe I can wear out laminated maps but they get used so much I actually do.

Thanks to Stephen J. O'Meara for writing such DSO hunting inspiring books! I would truly have to say these are my most carried, used, and read/re-read astronomy books. The next being Harvard Pennington's Messier series.

#20 faackanders2

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:38 PM

First time I ever read the additional object appendix in his books, but the 14 LMC and 6 SMC objects were intriguing.
All 40 objects were recorded in Dunlop's catalog. Two of these were Messier and at least one was a Caldwell object.
Since the LMC and SMC were excluded, I have no doubt O'Meara next book will include these and additional Southern Gems most likely by Dunlop (and perhaps some other Southern observer, since O'Meara like to include different discoverers in his appendix). Anyway I can't wait for the next one to be written either and it hasn't even been announce - perhaps in 2-3 years since Steve has possibly already started.

I read about the first seven objects and the last five. Three of the last five objects make the Grus Triplet, and another NGC7582 probably makes 4 objects visible in the same view. I have come to symphathis with John Dunlop since he was discredited by William Hershell who even claimed some of Dunlops objects as his own due to locations being a little off or his descriptions not being accurate enough (ex, NGC 300). William Hershell was very frustrated with 2/3 of Dunlops list having errors and "wasting his time" attempting to verify; whereas it should be noted John Hershells list had 1/3 errors and was not discredited. Each object is a very intersting read.

#21 faackanders2

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:23 PM

In addition to repeating 33 Caldwell objects, he also repeats 7 Messier objects mostly in Sagitarius (M83,m6,m8,m69,m22,m54,m55).
All objects were all listed in Dunlops catalog, and most were discovered by him.
Since the Messier objects are so well known, I feel these could have been in the appendix, except if Dunlop was the discoverer. O'mearea combined M6 and B283, but did not list brighter M7 which is closer to B283. I always found M7 far more impressing than M6 especially since you can see it naked eye in the south.
If you subtract the Caldwell and Messier Objects you have 120-33-7=80 new objects. I wish O'Meara would have provided 110 new objects and listed these 40 repeats in the index.
Observers in the Southern Hemisphere will like it since Dunlop probably selected the best of the best from what he could see. Omeara selected the best 120 out of these 620 cataloged Dunlop objects (don't know how many he actually discovered).


7 Messier Objects
33 calwell objects
15 Hidden Treasure Objects
4 Secret Deep Objects

If you subtract the Messier, Caldwell, Hidden Treasuers, and Secret Deep Objects you have 120-7-33-15-4=61 new objects for Southern Gems.

I wish O'Meara would have provided 110 new objects and listed these 61 repeats in the index. I enjoy reading about all the objects and this could be a stand alone book for going to the South (Most northern object is -23deg54' dec)

#22 faackanders2

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:44 PM

Most southern object NCG4732=C108=SG56 is at -72deg40' Dec.

For northerners this probably will be the least used of O'Meara's 5 book Deep Sky Companion series due to only having 61 new objects (about 1/2 the 120 total potential).
This book may have fairred much better if it were the second in the series, giving John Dunlap the credit he deserved; but with nearly 50% duplication from the other books in the series for northerners John Dunlap may remain the "forgotten" Messier of the South (but he will remain remembered and Cherished in the South).

Surely out of 629 Dunlap listed objects, assuming Hershell was correct that only 1/3 of the objects were confirmed valid would still leave 210 objects to select from. Note many of the 2/3 unable to confirm objects may have been double stars or asterisms to small to resolve with Dunlop's 9" scope.

I do not believe the 59 duplicate objects were all discovered by discovered by Dunlap; which I probably wouldn't mind since listing objects he discovered would definitely honor him.

I believe O'Meara's criteria for making the Southern Gems list were:
1. Must be one of Dunlop's 629 listed objects (or part of the modified shorter Dunlop 100, 150, or 244 lists)
2. Must be some of the best southern objects in the sky (visible in 4" scope from dark sky).

#23 edwincjones

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:45 AM

maybe he could have done better by going further South,
but there are not that many books about the southern skies.

name the better books available, please?

edj

#24 faackanders2

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:40 AM

maybe he could have done better by going further South,
but there are not that many books about the southern skies.

name the better books available, please?

edj


My assumption that Southern Gems don't go further south than -72deg 40' Dec (NGC4372=C108=SG56) is that the book is the 120 best of John Dunlops catalog of 629 nebulae and clusters presented to the Royal Society of London, which the society published in its' Philosophical Transactions in 1828. All of these objects were discovered and/or observed by John Dunlop from Parramatta, New South Wales, Australia with a 9" f/12 speculum metal reflector telescope of his own construction, between April 27 and November 30, 1826. He previously just completed (March 1822-March 1826) Ruemker's work, at observatory built next to the Government house of Parramatta using the same telescope, on what was to become a catalog of 9766 stars from the Southern Hemisphere which was published in 1835. He left Austrailia in February 1826 for his homeland (Scottland/England?).

Both the Appendix and Introduction imply O'Meara's next Deep Sky Companion series book may be the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds and possibly a continuation of Dunlop objects. I would have preferred O'Meara just have one book with objects discovered by Dunlop or observed by Dunlop (not listed in the other books in the series), and for those great objects already listed in the series put those in the additional list appendix. This would both give credit to Dunlop for all his discovereries plus be interesting in having all new objects written about in detail (and have other great objects observed by Dunlop and previously written about listed in the appendix). This would have made this book more valuable for us northern observers. Southern observers will probably like the book "as is" since they only need to carry one book!

#25 fred1871

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:25 PM

faackanders, you've given us some useful comments on O'Meara's new book, but a couple of corrections, and some extra information.

Dunlop's first name is James, not John. And in an earlier note you appeared to mix up William Herschel (who had died before Dunlop produced his catalogues from deep-sky observing in the south) with John Herschel, who got very frustrated trying to find various and many of Dunlop's objects.

The telescope Dunlop used in the yard of his house in Parramatta, New South Wales, was not part of the Parramatta Observatory equipment - the observatory had been set up by Thomas Brisbane, the Governor of what was then a British colony. The observatory was the Governor's (private) observatory, and he provided the instruments. The Parramatta Star Catalogue was done with a transit telescope, as was customary. Brisbane's main reason for the observatory was to catalog southern stars and provide accurate positions for them.

The star catalog, published as you note in 1835, had the lengthy title
A Catalogue of 7385 stars, chiefly in the Southern Hemisphere, prepared from observations made in the years 1822, 1823, 1824, 1825, and 1826, at the Observatory at Paramatta, New South Wales. (The title uses the older spelling of Parramatta). The observations were reduced, and the catalog prepared, by William Richardson at the Greenwich Observatory.

Dunlop's survey of southern skies, the first done with even a moderate telescope, was a personal endeavour to catalog clusters, nebulae and double stars. His telescope was of rather modest quality to judge from his observation notes.

These days, Parramatta is part of Sydney, and Governor Brisbane is remembered by the name of a city far to the north of Sydney, in another state.

Finally - for the southern observer, the most useful general purpose observing guide is still Ernst Hartung's Astronomical Objects for Southern Telescopes (1968 - and reprints). Hartung was turned into a coffee-table picture book at a later time, but the original version remains a very good survey of the southern-accessible sky, which of course includes equatorial and medium-north areas. Those of us south of the equator don't look only at objects well south; we wander through all areas accessible from our latitudes. So the O'Meara book will have its place but it isn't the one book to do it all for southern observers. I expect it'll be more used by northern observers visiting the southern hemisphere, by extending their observing lists into new-for-them regions. Its other benefit is bringing Dunlop's work to a wider audience.






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