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1/8 " LX80 Play in AZ axis acceptable?

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#76 OzAndrewJ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

Gday Rich

Anyway, the long and short appears to be time spent using it hoping the full list of specs will be met is time spent in frustration.



Yes and no.
The new firmware will more than likely become the default firmware
for ALL Audiostars, hence its not just LX80 based.
The stuff i am looking at isn't really checking if it complies with a load specification, i'm just seeing if it works at the simplest level :tonofbricks:
So far, i have to say the changes made to allow pulseguiding in AltAz
have broken the process overall, but i think i can now see why.
Unfortunately, there are three layers of bugs on top of the latest one.
All par for the course ( and more fun than Sudoku ).

Andrew

#77 OzAndrewJ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:07 PM

Gday Ed

Anyway, the long and short appears to be time spent using it hoping the full list of specs will be met is time spent in frustration.



You forgot about how the RA axle itself is supported.
It is acting as a cantilevered beam anchored to a flat baseplate with three bolts.
Under heavier loads, i suspect there will be flexure in this assy as well,
like a big spring.

Andrew

#78 Jack Huerkamp

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:56 PM

Well my movement is NOT coming from the tripod. I replaced the weak tripod top with a machined aluminum assembly that eliminates any possibility of the legs popping off of the tripod.

Posted Image

My movement/vibration is coming from the RA drive system itself. It is too springy. The spring loaded worm and worm gear were designed to keep them in contact, but this allow the worm to ride out of the worm gear.

Jack Huerkamp

#79 EFT

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:10 PM

Well my movement is NOT coming from the tripod. I replaced the weak tripod top with a machined aluminum assembly that eliminates any possibility of the legs popping off of the tripod.

My movement/vibration is coming from the RA drive system itself. It is too springy. The spring loaded worm and worm gear were designed to keep them in contact, but this allow the worm to ride out of the worm gear.


I think that you could still be getting vibration from the tripod, even with substantial improvement to the hub if the legs are not well braced lower down. However, you are most likely correct that much of the problem stems from the RA axis design. Unfortunately, as discussed before, that appears to be a no-win situation, at least in regards to heavier loads. Obviously, your CGE Pro in the background is the winner here.

#80 Jack Huerkamp

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:01 AM

Ed,

I had considered getting one of you spreader bar attachments for the tripod to help stiffen the tripod further. But in looking at the mount while tapping the focuser, all the movement appears to be at or above the RA (azimuth) base plate. I wanted a portable mount that I could use with my C9.25 and MallinCams in both Alt-Az and EQ modes. The LX80 will work with my MallinCams when lighter OTAs like my Lunt80 with DSII and my 6SE with HyperStar are employed. Due to the vibration issues with the LX80, especially in EQ mode, I will have to search out other options.

The CGE PRO is going into Waning Moon I - my observatory with ExploraDome II. It is not exactly a portable str party mount - at least not for me.

Jack Huerkamp

#81 Starhawk

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:30 PM

It just sounds like a whole lot of the guts would have to be replaced to make this perform well. I can't see anything in the photos of the internals to say "you know, if a bushing took the place of that part, all would be well." It's like it would need entirely new gears- the sort of thing people do to upgrade a CGEM, and then because their alternative is a Mach 1. But that's a very different machine.

Just for the sake of discussion, if I were trying to design something for the LX 80 role, I think I would start with something like the Vixen Great Polaris DX and give it a tilting wedge block so the mount would center correctly in both modes and could remember your latitude setting.

I'm of two minds about the left/right scope arrangements. I have long imagined that would be the cat's pajamas, but seeing how it works in real life on the LX 80 has made me start thinking that may not be such a great idea, with one scope on the end of a bouncy arm with what is already a bouncy mount.

Someone had to do the experiment. It's just one of those things where you don't know at the outset if you are going to wind up with a Mustang or an Edsel. Maybe the Synta version will have magic- we'll have to see. The Nexstar SE's EQ performance is poor enough to make me wonder if this will turn out to be one of those ideas you just can't make work well.

-Rich

#82 Lee Jay

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

Someone had to do the experiment. It's just one of those things where you don't know at the outset if you are going to wind up with a Mustang or an Edsel. Maybe the Synta version will have magic- we'll have to see.
-Rich


Looks good to me.

#83 DuiA1

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:48 AM

I agree with you Jack. Was out last night and can confirm that it is mostly the mount az axis. Tapping the tripod only yielded 3-4 seconds damping time but tapping the diagonal on my AR6 was still at 8 seconds. Looks like it will be the norm unless Meade or someone else figures out how to stop the play in this axis.

#84 joeastro

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

i JUST RECEVIED

#85 joeastro

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

i JUST RECEVIED MY LX80.. just sitting here there is 1mm or 1/8" AZ rotation slop. i tried to take some pictures of jupiter but the shutter just wiggles the mount.

i will call meade next week. see what they say. does any one have a picture of how to access the main az worm drive? and adjust the worm tension or position?

thanks joeastro

#86 DuiA1

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

The yahoo group for the lx80 has the best pictures I've seen so far. What was your damping time when tapping your eyepiece. What scope are you using and it's weight?

#87 joeastro

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:29 PM

lx80 lower part to main part fix.
remove the whole lx80/90 head from the tripod.
look at the bottom.. there are 4 set screws
that are about 1/8"... loosen the north locking arm.
this has a plugin the middle of the bottom of the
bottom plate of this mount. now the bottom plate
should be free to wiggle..

tighten each of the 4 set screws about 1/4 turn, not too
tight, just touching pressure. I think they have some
spherical balls that these 4 screws push to make friction
with the UPPER base of the real mount.

now, push the north locking arm to lock position. you
should now have positive contact from the upper plate and
this lower plate.

bolt it back to the tripod and the 1mm type slop is gone.

you should have no slop in the upper mount when
you tighten the rear AZ locking arm.

joeastro

#88 DuiA1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

Joe I think what you're describing is not the same as the slop I'm experiencing. Neilson and jack have described the azimuth slop in the mount as being a result of the spring in the az mount is not stiff enough. Do you have the slop in the mount in equatorial mode if you grasp the cw bar and wiggle it? What scope are you using with your mount.

#89 DuiA1

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

Well folks, finally made the decision to send the mount back for repair. Was tough but I cannot continue to use the mount with 10 second damp time and the az slop. Got the info to Meade today and awaiting their return email with the details on the process . Made it clear that I need two things fixed. Slop in the azimuth and update to my hc to the latest firmware. Any other advice?

#90 Starhawk

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

Are you saying you are returning it, or you want them to attempt a repair?

-Rich

#91 DuiA1

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

Sorry, edited my post. Want them to attempt a repair. Some users are experiencing better damping times so I am hoping for better results with the repair. I am trying really hard to love this mount and will see if Meade can make it right.

#92 Starhawk

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 05:44 PM

The better reports appear to reflect low usage time.

-Rich

#93 Jack Huerkamp

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:04 AM

After I received my LX80 back from Meade Service it still had the same level of slop and damping time as your mount. They said that due to the spring loading of the worm/worm gear, this play is normal and they refused to authorize a second return for servicing.

I hope Meade has figured out how to eliminate the slope and control the damping time on the mount. If so, I will pursue having Meade "fix" mine.

In the interim, I am ordering a SkyWatcher Az EQ-6. It is more than twice the price of the LX80, but it is capable of handling a C9.25 without vibrating.

Jack

#94 Jack Huerkamp

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

In my case, good results with short damping time and minimal slop occurred when I was using my C6 OTA - about 15# with the 11# counterweight. With the 21# C9.25 and 22# counterweight, the slop and vibrations got so high that MallinCam use was not possible even in A/A mode.

#95 mega256

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:26 PM

I think the EQ6 alt/az will be a good choice Jack.
Looks to be a great mount!

Too bad ,I too wantted a LX80 to use in dual mode.But
from what I read,it wont work for me..If you guys are having problems with a single scope on the mount,going to
2 scopes will just make it tougher! (IMHO)...
I will just use my 6se mount and lunt 60THa and C6 for that
alt az setup,,
Most of my video is over or about 30-60 seconds,so an EQ is nice...And for DSLR its needed...The Ieq45 will suite me for
that,,,it allso has springs(on the worm gears) ,but they seam to work.
BTW the LX80 is priced on ebay and hayneadle at 899 for
the last few days..
Looking forward to the new EQ6 alt/az test.

#96 Jack Huerkamp

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

Brian,

I spoke to Brian at KWTelescopes today and placed the order for the SkyWatcher Az EQ-6.

I will be able to do a side by side comparison with the LX80 and will report back to the group.

Jack

#97 DuiA1

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

Jack, are they shipping in January and did they give you a date for yours? Looking forward to your review.
Btw, Meade has been good and offered return shipping on this repair. Will be shipping it hopefully tomorrow. Will let you know how things work out. I'm hoping for the better.

#98 Jack Huerkamp

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

KWTelescopes in Kitchener Waterloo has them in stock. That is who I ordered mine from.

Jack

#99 DuiA1

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:33 PM

I am just wondering why the variability with this mount on this issue. Mike is using his and he has not much slop in his az axis . Also some have reported no slop. Others have issues as I have (Jack). My question is could tweaking any mechanical parts of the mount by Meade address this issue permanently? I mean some have posted no slop with 20 lb scopes so there must be some hope right? I am anxiously waiting for the return of mine...

#100 Jack Huerkamp

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:17 AM

I had hoped that when Meade receved my mount for servicing in September, they would/could eliminate the Az play. When it returned from servicing, the play was the same. When I called back to complain, I was told by the head of Meade's service department that the play is normal.

So to minimize the effects of movement caused by spring loaded gears, I have had to use shorter and lighter OTA's than I purchased the mount for.

The only way to eliminate the play is to eliminate the spring loaded worm and keep the gears meshed. The sping is used instead to eliminate gear damage. It is possible to fix the worm/worm gear and add a slip clutch to prevent gear damage. But that inceases the complexity of the drive system and its cost. If given the option, I would have opted for the later.

Jack Huerkamp






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