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Lunar X - Purbach X

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#1 Lun-a-tic

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:05 PM

I am trying to find a website that may give me the dates and times for viewing the Lunar X / Purbach X for the upcoming year 2013, Is there someone on Cloudy Nights that can help me out? I sure hope there is, So thanks for helping .

#2 REC

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:11 PM

Here are the dates for this year. Good one comming up this month. Did you google search for next year?

Jan 30 1731 CST Feb 29 0754 CST Mar 29 2204 CDT
Apr 28 0955 CDT May 27 2044 CDT Jun 26 0702 CDT
Jul 25 1726 CDT Aug 24 0431 CDT Sep 22 1639 CDT
Oct 22 0601 CDT Nov 20 1930 CST Dec 20 1038 CST

#3 Lun-a-tic

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:02 PM

Yes I have tried Google several times, even went as far as entering Purbach X but to no avail, I'm open for any suggestions, Thanks for your help. My orinigal list came from "someone" on Cloudy Nights, I guess I need to dig back through some papers and see if I can find the orinigal and maybe even post their address hoping they spot it THANKS again

#4 67champ

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

I do not know of any website dedicated to this. However, myself and a few others on here seem to post that info a few times a year on here and other sites... (Ed, Dave Chapman, others)

The predicted "start" times usually vary just a few minutes among posters and don't present a big problem since you should be ready to observe or image well before the "X" is fully formed, right? :-)

My 2013 predicted "Start times" (for fully formed X) for the First Quarter Lunar X are below:

1-19 0801 UT
2-17 2233 UT
3-19 1154 UT
4-17 2357 UT
5-17 1056 UT
6-15 2121 UT
7-15 0746 UT
8-13 1844 UT
9-12 0642 UT
10-11 1950 UT
11-10 1005 UT
12-10 0105 UT


dana t

#5 67champ

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:09 AM

Most common names for this seem to be, (but not limited to) are:

Werner X
Lunar X
Purbach Cross
Lunar Cross
Purbach X
Werner Cross

Did I miss any??? :-)

OH, this is NOT the same illumination as the "Curtiss Cross"! (different location, different co-long)...

dana t

#6 Lun-a-tic

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

Dana T,
THANK YOU, WHEN I GET A PICTURE OR TWO IN THE UPCOMING MONTHS I WILL POST IT WITH A REF: TO YOU
THANKS AGAIN :)

#7 edosaurusrex

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

Hi Dana,

Here's what I got. The second time listed is the subjective "end" of the event.

19 JAN 0749 to 1052
17 FEB 2218 to 18 FEB 0121
19 MAR 1140 to 1443
17 APR 2347 to 18 APR 0250
17 MAY 1051 to 1354
15 JUN 2121 50 16 JUN 0024
15 JUL 0749 to 1052
13 AUG 1850 to 2153
12 SEP 0647 to 0950
11 OCT 1952 to 2255
10 NOV 1003 to 1306
10 DEC 0057 to 0400

#8 67champ

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

Hey ED, thanks for your data; I hope to be watching this next Lunar X really close, and imaging too with any luck...

dana t

#9 RobDob

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:26 PM

Here's a miniature mode Lunar X I took from 9/21. Zoomed the raw photo, cropped it at processed it on tiltshiftmaker.com

Rob

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#10 67champ

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:40 PM

Cool pic. That is what one might call a "late X" as it has lots of sunlight surrounding it...

dana t

#11 RobDob

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:27 PM

Yeah, it's a few hours late. The X was at it's best during daylight out here on the west coast on 9/21/12. The seeing was great and allowed some decent afocal point and shoot pics after the sun went down.

Rob

#12 Lun-a-tic

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

Dana,
Real quick , how do you calulate the times for the upcoming viewing times for the "X" ? I like to watch it form from nothing , so how would one sit and compute the times ( start, fully formed, and end ) just thought I would ask and try to do this on my own instead of always asking others. Thanks Gary a.k.a. LUN-A-TIC :confused:

#13 edosaurusrex

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:19 PM

Gary,

I believe Dana uses the Sun's colongitude to make predictions. Dave Chapaman wrote a fantastic article a few years back with a timeline for the formation of the Werner X. Dave does correlate the timeline with other predictions, including mine.

#14 67champ

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:37 PM

Gary, that's no problem, it makes me feel useful...lol Ed, I use a program that shows many different parameters; but I tend to go on the sun elevation (Sun Alt.) over crater Werner (1.2) to arrive at the "fully formed start time". I think on average it's about every approximately 29 days, 12 hours, and 44 minutes... :smirk:

dana t

#15 Dave Chapman

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:39 AM

Thanks for the kind words, Ed! A version of my 2007 JRASC article can be found at https://dl.dropbox.c...8378/LunarX.pdf if anyone wants to read it.

For those that have the software, I think Dana's solar elevation angle is the way to go to pinpoint the event; however, a simpler method is just to figure out when the colongitude is 358ยบ, which is pretty easy to do these days with a variety of tools. This marks the "peak" of the apparition, although that term is subject to interpretation. Anyway, I would figure out that instant and start observing about 3 h earlier, if you want to see the whole thing develop. The X pretty much appears like clockwork every synodic month, i.e. 29.530589 days. That is the relatively easy part, then you have to figure out if you can actually see the Moon from your observing location at that time. This part of the event seems to confuse a lot of people, as they reckon they should be able to see it every month from the same location.

I will not attempt a lengthy explanation here, but I invite folks to read my article.

I admire you, Ed, for your patience in performing the calculations, posting them, and directing people's attention to them when they ask. It is an interesting phenomenon, and it gets people thinking and talking about the motion of the Moon and the Earth!

Next Tuesday's X is very well placed for observers in North America, Central America, and South America.

cielos claros

Dave XVII




Gary,

I believe Dana uses the Sun's colongitude to make predictions. Dave Chapaman wrote a fantastic article a few years back with a timeline for the formation of the Werner X. Dave does correlate the timeline with other predictions, including mine.



#16 edosaurusrex

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

Shucks Dave, all I do is open the QBASIC program, enter the year, and less than 10 seconds later I have the dates and times. The compliment is, as always, appreciated.

I agree with you about the X. Just like Alberio can generate an interest in other double stars, once the X is hunted down and viewed it can launch the observer into other lighting specific lunar phenomena like crater rays, or repeat views of things like Hadley Rille at the Apollo 15 landing site. The Moon got a lot more fun after I chased and then spotted the X.

Ed

#17 Dave Chapman

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:51 AM

Happy X-hunting tonight, everyone in the Americas!

#18 REC

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:16 AM

What's the best time to see it here EST?

Thanks!

Bob

#19 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:48 PM

The Lunar X should be visible sometime around 8:30 p.m. EST.

Dave Mitsky

#20 Tom and Beth

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Sadly, it looks like clouds are going to put a dmaper on Tucson Observations.

Figures....STINKING clouds!

Was going to FINALLY get a pic of this, up close and personal. Spent the last couple of nights honing the focus and camera settings....

#21 REC

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

Thanks Dave....I'm looking at the moon now at 5:30 and it's just starting to form....cool!

#22 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:51 PM

You're welcome. No Lunar X for me tonight I'm afraid.

Dave Mitsky

Here's a photo of the last Lunar X (and V) apparition that I observed.

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#23 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

Tonight's CSC...

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#24 67champ

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

No X for me tonight. I am pretty sure central Ohio will be clouded in all evening! :bawling: Ah, AGAIN!!!

dana t

PS - I stand by my posts from long ago that this is a "somewhat rare event" meaning that if it only happens a few times a year at your location when the Moon is visable (Moon is up, and hasn't set yet) AND when it's cloudy or something; you may only get one good chance to see it in a year.... Maybe more, maybe less... :tonofbricks:

#25 edosaurusrex

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:20 PM

Dave,

Sorry, I didn't mean to call you Chapaman and the edit capability closed before I could change it.

Ed






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