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4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it?

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#51 Joe Cepleur

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

It certainly wouldn't be a disaster if standard non-damping grease were used.


Certainly not a disaster. Could always clean it off later.

You might even find the backlash adjustable enough to be perfectly usable.


The equatorial mount of my Jason 313 has become close to unusable since removing the original dampening grease. The good news is that the original grease froze so hard in cold weather that the scope became close to immobile. With Mobile Synthetic, everything turns so freely that even the weight of the dangling slow mos can rotate the mount. (The slow mos do not dangle freely; they favor a certain curve.) Adjusting the tension between the worm gears has not changed this. So, I've learned that dampening grease matters, and am following this thread looking for answers.

#52 TahoeNoob

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

Does anybody know anything about Napa Sil-Glyde Lubricating Compound?

This morning I stopped by both the hardware store and the local motor parts store. Neither place had the brand names that I was looking for. The guy at the motor parts store was really nice and swore that Sil-Glyde would work perfectly. He thought the grease you guys are recommending would be too thick. Anyway, after a full twenty minute course in all things grease, Grease Talk 101, I felt obligated to buy a 4oz tube! On the label it says: High film strength. Stays put. Water repellent. Won't run or melt. Effective from -20* to +600*F. Prevents freezing. Harmless to rubber.


I also found an old tube of Pedro's Syn-Jection Grease mixed in with all my bicycle tools. On the label it says: Ultra Performance Synthetic Grease. Superior water and corrosion resistance. Structural stability for longer lasting performance. 100 percent synthetic means reduced friction and low wear.


Now that I have two greases, I'm not sure which one to use! :confused:

#53 tim53

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

Y'all know you mean "damping" not "dampening," right?

You want it to wobble less, you're not really trying to make it wet. :o

Tim

#54 desertrefugee

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:18 PM

The equatorial mount of my Jason 313 has become close to unusable since removing the original dampening grease.... So, I've learned that dampening grease matters, and am following this thread looking for answers.



I would just offer up that damping grease is not a magic elixir. If the machining tolerance of a mount's gearset is off to such a degree that it depends on the viscosity of added lubrication to reduce a significant amount of mechanical "slop", then that's not an ideal condition.

I'll still maintain that axis performance should be completely controllable with the mechanical adjustment provided in the assembly - regardless of the choice of lubrication. If not, perhaps a better mount specimen or model might be advised for demanding use.

#55 TahoeNoob

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:26 PM

As far as the exposed worm gears are concerned, is running them completely dry a bad idea?


Why do I think "dampening" might be correct? "The vibrations were damped," sounds wrong to me.

This is going to bother me until I finally get off my lazy rear and look it up, three weeks from now. Lay and lie; whose and who's; it's and its; good and well. Ugh! Honestly, I could care less. I care! LOL

#56 PiSigma

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:31 PM

Shock absorbers on vehicles are more correctly called dampers not dampeners.

http://dictionary.re.../browse/dampers

#57 actionhac

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

I've been meaning to order from here:
http://www.nyelubric...s/damping.shtml

At the bottom of the page "Damping grease sample kit" would be a good thing to start with to get the right one.

I have a tube of outboard motor gear lube that I think belonged to Christopher Columbus its dried out to the perfect viscosity and works well but its not the same as damping grease.

Robert

#58 tim53

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

Shock absorbers on vehicles are more correctly called dampers not dampeners.

http://dictionary.re.../browse/dampers


They need to add:

6. Star Trek: Inertial Dampers (though if you watch the show enough, you'll see some of the characters say "Dampeners" as often as Dampers. But maybe the really are trying to wet something (their pants, perhaps?), instead of stop it from wiggling? :grin:

-Tim.

#59 tim53

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:46 PM

For binocular focusers, I've heard Chap Stick recommended as a damping grease.

#60 TahoeNoob

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:41 PM

From the same dictionary: http://dictionary.re...owse/dampen?s=t

2. to dull or deaden; depress: to dampen one's spirits.

Is it possible that we're all right? :shocked:

#61 Joe Cepleur

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:56 PM

I have Nye Lubricant's sample kit. It consists of half a dozen damp(en)ing greases of different weights, each packed in a little plastic pillow pack, like the mustard and ketchup at fast-food restaurants. After reading the copious instructions, I selected the heaviest grease for my worm gears, and found it made... no difference! The mount had worked fine in warm weather until I cleaned the old gunk from the worm. Now, no adjustment has prevented backlash, to the point where it's hard to keep it on a target, so it appeared the new grease was the problem. I'll play again with the tension adjustment on the worm. Maybe I'm a lousy mechanic, or maybe my mount is a lemon!

#62 TahoeNoob

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

Tomorrow I'll put it back together:

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#63 TahoeNoob

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:49 PM

I still have some minor work to do on the tripod, I'm looking for some 5" mounting rings, and I haven't even started working on the actual scope yet... but I sure am having fun! (The best thing is, I used to dread just looking at the scope... now I see that it's got promise! I look forward to actually using it!)

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#64 actionhac

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

I've been meaning to order from here:
http://www.nyelubric...s/damping.shtml

At the bottom of the page "Damping grease sample kit" would be a good thing to start with to get the right one.

I have a tube of outboard motor gear lube that I think belonged to Christopher Columbus its dried out to the perfect viscosity and works well but its not the same as damping grease.

Robert


I received the sample kit. I'll see how it works.

Robert

#65 actionhac

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:07 AM

Post deleted by actionhac

#66 actionhac

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:15 AM

Nye asked a few application questions and sent this kit.
Fluorocarbon Gel 868. Very Light (VL) thru Very Heavy (VH).
Heavy is specified for microscopes, surveying equip. Very Heavy for focusing mechanisms.

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#67 apfever

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:27 PM

Bob, I've seen these sample kits before and have heard that they are quite nice. I believe there are some strings on CN, Classic Forums, about these samples. I'd be very interested in your report. I have several scopes to do (as usual) and I'l likely make an actual volume order. I could just order a sample, but in all honesty, I'll have enough input with your report.

#68 TahoeNoob

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

I'm still here. I've just been busy working on a bunch of other projects! Anyway, I had the tube black powder coated, and my brother made me a bracket to hold the mounting rings/clamps. (I wanted to have the clamps black powder coated too, but the guy wouldn't do it for beer... so that's not gonna happen!)

Does anybody know of a product that would allow me to powder coat the clamps in my oven?

A couple pictures:
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Posted Image

#69 amicus sidera

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:28 PM

Very nice, looks great! Personally, I wouldn't powdercoat the mounting rings, I think it would be a bit too much black. Their natural color goes with the other shiny metal hardware on the mount.

#70 desertrefugee

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

Agreed. Very nice. Looks like you're done to me. Time to get it outside!

#71 TahoeNoob

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:55 PM

I still need to clean the mirror, and put it together for the final time.

The mirror is in good shape, but it's very dust. (This scope has been sitting out in the garage for 40 years!) I'm a little bit afraid. I think I'm going to have to take the cell out of its mount and I've read that when you put it back in... you have to be careful not to make it too tight. There's also the whole "I don't want to damage the mirror" thing.

I found this in the Beginner's Forum. Is it reasonable?

cleaning a mirror has to be done carefully. The most important thing to understand is that telescope mirrors are first surface mirrors and the coating are quite soft. This is how I clean a mirror:

- Remove the cell from the telescope, remove the mirror from the mirror cell. Blow the dust off the mirror either with a bulb or with canned air. Do not use a brush.

- Prepare a clean sink or for a smaller mirror a large clean bowl. Rinse the mirror by running water across the surface. The soak the mirror in the bowl, clean cool water with a tad bit of dish soap. After some time, 10 to 20 minutes or less, rinse the mirror under the tap, rinse the mirror with distilled water and let dry.

If the mirror is still not clean, then I soak it and very carefully swab the surface with a bundle of about 6 surgical cotton balls. This is done under the water and the balls are just floated across the surface every so lightly.

Rinse, Rinse with distilled water. Tilt up in a safe place and let dry. A few remaining droplets may require dabbing dry.

Replace mirror in cell, making sure the clips are not pinching the mirror, reinstall the mirror cell in the scope, collimate and you are ready to go.


#72 TOM KIEHL

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:35 PM

I too have a Anchor scope like yours Niel, The research I found on the Anchor optical newt., said Edmoumds bought Anchor and then,,, Started production of the Pal JR pier mount and keep the tripod style also, after the sale of Anchor to Edmounds. Mine dates about 1954 and has a coated prism for a secondary mirror glued to a single stalk,that has a flat plate that is 90* to the stalk ,,Edmounds wanted that Anchor design for ther own.. so they bought Anchor,,and besides Anchor was right down the street from Edmounds.. I quess Edmounds wanted to be the BIG DOG on the block so to speak,,, SERVIVAL OF THE FITTEST

#73 catboat

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 05:55 AM

Tube and mount look great! Nice work!

Your mirror cleaning instructions look fine to me. Just take your time and don't strive for perfection. You can always do it again.

I sometimes use my finger tips instead of cotton balls because fingers sense grit and you know to stop. Have cotton balls on hand in any case, plenty of them (and throw them away after each *very* light swish or dab).

During the initial rinse, clean the sides and back of the mirror so you don't contaminate your "soaking" water with grit.

Have no fear about removing your primary from its cell and remounting it correctly. Your retaining clips may need some fresh cork or felt between clip and mirror surface. Stick-on furniture pads work well. They may also need some cork/felt on the uprights to take up slack between the uprights and the side of the mirror. The usual rule of thumb on "how tight" is to place a file card between clips and mirror and the snug the clip down lightly.

Great to see that you've got this up and running again. Enjoy it.

#74 Mirzam

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:20 AM

I use the same method to clean my mirrors. The only added wrinkle is that I get my wife's hair dryer to help chase off any remaining droplets after the distilled water rinse. With a small mirror this is probably overkill.

JimC

#75 TahoeNoob

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

I'm getting ready to clean my mirror, but I've run into a minor problem...

When trying to remove the mirror from the cell, after removing the three hold-down clamps, I find that the mirror is glued to the cell. Is this normal? Should I try to pry the mirror out of the cell? I don't think I want to soak the whole cell... do I?

I suppose I could wedge a sharp knife into the crack and try to pop the mirror off the mount, but I don't know if that'll work. I don't want to hurt anything. Does anybody have any advice?

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