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Jupiter from Arizona - 19 Nov 2012

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#1 DesertRat

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:17 PM

Seeing was generally fair with some good moments early in the evening. The seeing was just above average (6/10) for this image shown in a south up view at 1.3X. I dropped the magnification down to capture moons. I have not yet processed those.

The GRS is just rotating into view, with a prominent little red spot in the south polar area. The white spot Z oval has just past the central meridian.

Captured with a Flea3 using FireCapture 2.1. Wavelets in R6, RGB image composed using WinJupos derotation.

Comments or questions welcome. The color is a work in progress! Thanks for looking!

Glenn

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#2 aaube

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:42 PM

Another great image! The amount of details you guys are able to pull from polar areas is really impressive.

Sincerely,

Alain

#3 Sameer

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

:bow: :bow: :bow:

#4 BKBrown

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

Looks like you collected some terrific data Glenn, looks real good already...

Clear Skies,
Brian :waytogo:

#5 Kecktastic

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:30 PM

Very nicely done Glenn, looking at it with the computer that I do my final colour balance it looks pretty good, maybe ever so slightly blue but that would really be splitting hairs.

Well done.
Regards
Trevor

#6 Sunspot

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

Glenn,

That is a real beauty!!

Paul

#7 Az Frank

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:42 PM

A fine capture Glenn! Color looks spot on to me! Look forward to more images.

#8 ToxMan

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:15 PM

We had high thin clouds off and on down here when you were imaging, Glenn. Obviously, they didn't go north enough. Thank goodness! I haven't set up for about a week waiting for clearer skies.

I can see where Trevor might pick up more blue in his monitor. On mine, it is not very noticeable...actually closer to gray. Maybe give us a sample of the blue channel you shot? I'll bet
it was pretty good for a change. Thanks.

Paul

#9 DesertRat

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:13 AM

Thanks all!

Trevor & Paul - yes the last thing I did before final was take some blue out. Perhaps not enough.

Paul - The blue channel was nothing special - you really have to have 8+ seeing for blue to really pop. That happens maybe once or twice a year for me. Anyways here is the blue channel at orig scale.

Glenn

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#10 ToxMan

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

Thanks, Glenn. I didn't think it was too blue or blue-gray. More curious how blue channel looked...very nice.

#11 Kokatha man

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:39 AM

Thanks all!
The blue channel was nothing special - you really have to have 8+ seeing for blue to really pop. That happens maybe once or twice a year for me. Anyways here is the blue channel at orig scale.
Glenn


....."nothing special" Glenn, but still pretty nice in the scheme of things! :grin:

If it had really "popped" we'd all be looking at a quite extra-ordinary image.....but as it is anyone would take it - congratulations!!! :waytogo: :waytogo: :waytogo: :)

#12 John Boudreau

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:32 AM

Wonderful image Glenn!
:bow:

#13 sfugardi

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:46 AM

Glenn, jaw dropping awesome! Image size is huge yet smoothly detailed. So do you stack in AS2! or Reg6 and what size do you upscale the frames, 1.5x or 3x (or something else). I've been using AS2! and 1.5x drizzle then downscale at the very end. I finally got the WinJupo video derotating working and after creating a few mega files, the overall quality is not much different from normal. Excellent work and thanks for posting

Regards,
Steve

#14 DesertRat

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:05 PM

Thanks again guys!

Steve - I use AS!2 for stacking. Manually selected align points sized from 80 to 120 pixels are placed across the planet face. For this image there were approximately 20 align points. The best 30% of the frames were used from each channel in this collection, or 1000 to 1200 frames in each color.

Here's an example of some align points for blue channel in data I took last night (not this thread but the morning after!) . An arrangement of size 120 boxes and 2 size 160 boxes in the polar areas. Its not meant to be authoritative by any means, may not be the best approach, but it has worked in the past. Different data may require something different. The quality estimator I generally use is gradient 4 or 5. Its instructive to examine the 'Quality Graph' for different estimators.

With the 1X stacks I resampled up by 2.5X. I use PixInsight for that task, which provides the most artifact free resampling in my experience. Now they are 1200x1200 tiffs. R6 linked gaussian wavelets are then used with an 'Initial Layer' of 2 with the 'Sharpen' boxes generally lowered from their default 0.100 value. You have to be careful to set the processing area to 2048 or else you wiill get vertical artifacts even after selecting 'Do All'. After any further processing (decon in MaximDL or AstraImage) they are then measured and combined using WinJupos. I've found the program to give superior aligning results. PixInsight is again used for any further processing, color correction, noise control and resampling down.

Note: some data sets do not benefit from resampling. Sometimes I find my experimental 1X RGB is better than the process described above! It all mostly has to do with the effective psf sizes in relation to image sizes as well as the seeing, and maybe the number of cups of tea!

Steady skies,
Glenn

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#15 sulcis2000

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:22 PM

Very very good Glenn!

#16 sfugardi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:49 AM

Glenn, thanks for replying with the details! There are literally a million ways to process the data. And now I am wondering if I had been leaving some resolution on the table going to 2000 frame stacks which is 45-60% depending on the color vs your 30%? I'll try some comparisons, although it may depend on the data quality. Since PixInsight is no longer freeware, I'll have to stick with Reg6. I have tried going to 3.0 drizzle in AS2! but it does not seem to help. With a couple of clear nights coming up, I'll need to offload my old data. Take it easy

Regards,
Steve

#17 MvZ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:06 AM

Excellent images, and I like the way you use AS!2 with the alignment points, it looks very solid. I use a very similar AP configuration (and quality settings for that matter).

Careful manual AP placement for planetary images is the way to go.

I disagree on the blue channel qualification though. It probably depends a lot on your location, but that still looks pretty special. Ok, it could be better with perfect seeing, but most of the times in my experience blue is much worse than this.

#18 lcd1080

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:41 AM

Glenn, I have a quick question. How do you relate the Quality Graph in AS!2 to the value you choose for Noise Robustness in the Quality Estimator? For example if the green line of the Quality Graph intersects the 50% value of the Y-axis at a point 3/4 of the way along the X-axis would you re-do the Analyse function after changing your Noise Robust value to 3 from of 4 or 5? Also do you always check the "Force Global Quality" box or are there instances where special factors lead you to decide not to check it?

Thanks,
Pete

#19 MvZ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:21 PM

I would like to add something here.

Don't use Force Global Quality unless you have transparancy problems that give you seams. Using local quality for each AP will generally give you a sharper image, especially when the seeing is poor, simply because one side of Jupiter is fuzzy doesn't mean the other side also is. Force Global Quality is just a trick to turn that local quality estimation off, which is useful under certain special conditions.

Noise robust 4 is 90% of the time just fine. For blue it might be better to go to 5 or 6, but that really depends on the seeing.

AS!2 is fast. This makes it relatively easy to test out these things. If you are not sure which settings to use, pick the best bunch of your recordings*, and play around with it a bit to determine what works best for each color. Go from large AP sizes to small, and then from large noise robust values to small, and carefully (!) compare the results.

Don't try to find rules for the quality graph, as I don't think there are any. (But if you found some, let me know ;) ). One single really good or really bad frame will make a '50% rule' look completely silly.

*determined by using a single big alignment point with quality 4, which pretty much always gives decent results: good enough to see the difference between the recordings.

#20 lcd1080

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:42 PM

Thanks Emil, I didn't know that a single frame could have a dramatic effect on the Quality Graph.

Pete

#21 HANTO

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

Wonderful details and great colours, Glenn! Congrats!

Regards
torsten

#22 DesertRat

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

Thanks guys!

Pete - never used the force global quality box. Difficult to add much to Emil's advice! But I will say this: when comparing results from using different align box sizes and number of points its important to compare carefully as Emil wrote. The best way to do that is to blink the sharpened images in a viewer or IP program while zoomed in 1.5-2X.

As far as quality estimators goes it should be stated that if you use a smaller fraction of frames the level can have a larger impact. Scroll through the first few frames and you will see that the frame ordering is different.

You may find that a lower value estimator is more stringent in its evaluation of the quality, since in general it crosses the 50% line sooner. But for high gain frames like Jupiter I'd stick with gradient 4 or 5 - most of the time I use 5 for every color channel, and the same align points for each triplet.

If you have a gust of wind or bump the scope sending the planet to the edges or beyond you'll see the quality graph get skewed trying to fit the bad frames. You could edit them out but I generally don't.

Thanks Emil for adding your authoritative comments!

Glenn

#23 Mert

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

Wow, that's a marvelous image Glenn, it also gained
interest thanks to all the processing details you've
posted together with the comments from Emil.

By the way, I'd like to know if the 2.2 version will
be posted this year, or is it still in beta??????
( any clue Emil ??? :bow: )

#24 MvZ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

Ehh, don't ask such difficult questions. Plenty to do, slightly lower priority than planned.

I'll send you a link to the beta version if you want, might be handy to just test it out what I have so far to see if you can break it ;)

#25 sfugardi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:42 PM

Emil, thanks for the input. I've always used forced global 2, but unforced 4 does give slightly better results at least for R. Also, the alignment runs at least 3x faster using 4 vs 2. I have observed the vertical lines if the AP size is too small. Going from 15 to 28 APs does not seem to help.

Regards,
Steve






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