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EPs not coming to mrkt due to lack of demand?

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#1 Dave Ittner

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:07 PM

These last few years have been tough for a good number of folks. Especially those on fixed income as they relay on CD and MM rates which have effectively gone to near zero.

So I am wondering if the lack of demand is the real reason why we have seen so many announcements for new series of eyepieces and yet the release date keeps getting pushed back.

Personally I have seen used TV prices drop a tad more than what can be explained by their 10% off sale. (ie a 13mm Ethos - 1 went for $365 and another for $400). Oh and it hasn't been just TV either that prices have softened up on.

#2 csrlice12

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

Wonder when ES is going to ship all those backordered ES68* 24mm eyepieces. I've been waiting since May....

#3 M44

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

There will be a cargo being received this week with the new 25mm 100 deg. eyepiece, I suppose the cargo also holds other items.

#4 Paul G

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:46 PM

Interesting thought. It's a small market and I suspect could be saturated pretty easily. I remember when they were selling the last production run of the TMB Supermonos they didn't sell at all. Even at fire sale prices it took over a year to move them. Tom Back said he thought they had saturated the market.

#5 Abb

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:09 AM

Wonder when ES is going to ship all those backordered ES68* 24mm eyepieces. I've been waiting since May....


I had one on order last spring and after almost 3 months I cancelled and bought the readily available Baader 24mm 68° instead with absolutely no regrets!

Good luck!

#6 howard929

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:36 AM


So I am wondering if the lack of demand is the real reason why we have seen so many announcements for new series of eyepieces and yet the release date keeps getting pushed back.


Just a guess, but isn't it likely that new designs would be bought more by new comers then to the more established owners who basically would be satisfied with what they have? If that's any way near accurate then the rate of adding new members would be an important factor. As I'm too new to all of this I have no sense of that rate going up or down in the last few years. So I dunno about that, or much of anything else.

#7 csa/montana

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:51 AM

to the more established owners who basically would be satisfied with what they have?



Few are ever satisfied with what they have. Most look forward to trying the newest, greatest, hot item to hit the market. I thought I was at a point of not wanting more eyepieces; but the ES30 called my name, & I answered. Of course getting it, makes me look at the rest of my lineup. :lol:

#8 sg6

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:09 AM

Astronomy isn't exactly a majority hobby and the new eyepieces always seem to be high end ones. So to an extent a small market within a small market.

Many of the more budget eyepieces are very good, thinking of the A-T Paradigms here. Then throw in the limitations many people are looking at concerning buying another fairly costly eyepiece and I guess the market is a bit slow.

Unless whatever new eyepiece is significantly better there isn't a reason to just buy one to many people. Even if one is as good but cheaper then no reason to buy if you already have the alternative good EP.

Equally if they have designed and produced a new eyepiece the only way to get a return is to start selling them.

#9 Scott in NC

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:12 AM

Few are ever satisfied with what they have.


I'm now happy to count myself among the *few*. :grin: Of course, this was after a several-year journey of buying and selling, sampling what I could find on the used market until I arrived at a collection that works really well for me. Now, I'm not saying that I'll never buy another EP, but I'd like to think that I'll be satisfied for a long, long time. While there are some types of EPs that I've never tried (the Ethos line comes to mind), I'm not at all tempted, as I really can't personally justify spending that kind of cash on an EP. But, you know, if I came across a gently used one, and the price was right...hmm. :)

#10 csa/montana

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:20 AM

But, you know, if I came across a gently used one, and the price was right...hmm.



:whistle:


:lol:

#11 MitchAlsup

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:15 PM

Few are ever satisfied with what they have.


Then you probably did not do enough research before purchasing.

I was satisfied for over 2 decades with my Nagler (1s and 2s) collection. And over the last 1.5 years have rotated them out for Ethoi and an 9ES120, keeping only the 31NT5. I remain satisfied. When the 25ES100 arrives, I will buy one of them also and see if the 31NT5 remains in the collection.

#12 csrlice12

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

But, you know, if I came across a gently used one, and the price was right...hmm.



:whistle:


:lol:


See what I get for listening to you? Just picked up an 11mm T1 Nagler (box incl) for a very good price... :jump: :foreheadslap:

#13 skypilgrim

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:21 PM

Very well said sg6. That's probably also the case with EPs that did come to market but didn't last very long... like the Meade 5000 plossls. I have the 26mm and like it very much, but for perhaps the reasons you mention, dropped it yet maintained their 4000 line.

Sam

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#14 dan_h

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:05 PM

Unless whatever new eyepiece is significantly better there isn't a reason to just buy one to many people. Even if one is as good but cheaper then no reason to buy if you already have the alternative good EP.


This is so true. Most folks don't buy a new car just to do a test drive. And whatever features are newer and better don't always have enough appeal to woo customers who already have a functional set. I didn't buy the nitrogen fill for my auto tires and I'm not going to replace my eyepieces to get the latest nitrogen flush there.

Personally, I think the eyepieces I have will do. Before I bought them they were described as "lifetime purchases" so why would I even consider parting with them? And I really don't want another couple of thousand dollars sitting idle in the closet. So I have looked at the Ethos and Delos and the ES 68 and ES 82 but I'm not at all hungry.

dan

#15 BillP

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:58 PM

Astronomy isn't exactly a majority hobby and the new eyepieces always seem to be high end ones. So to an extent a small market within a small market.


Funny though how so many companies are staying in business and bringing out new eyepieces almost every year in this "small" hobby! Given the number of companies in this business, either making it or reselling it, must be fairly good.

#16 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:22 AM

Astronomy isn't exactly a majority hobby and the new eyepieces always seem to be high end ones.



I see a significant number of new midrange and lower priced eyepieces, eyepieces under $100 that are similar to the TMB Planetary's. Look at what Astro-Tech has to offer...

Jon

#17 Monoeil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:28 AM

Wrong. The market looks forward people to buying the newest,...., items. You don't satisfy a need buying new stuff, it is a myth consumerism wants you to believe.

I know what I need and I want what I got: 1 scope and 4 eyepieces, no more. Everything else is irrelevant to me.

#18 Eddgie

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:07 AM

If past experience is any idicatior, the Televue sale is a mechanism for reducing inventory and almost always signals a price increase.

There are many factors that would account for delay and your time speculating about it could be better spent on a letter to santa.

#19 Shneor

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

Few are ever satisfied with what they have.


Then you probably did not do enough research before purchasing.

I was satisfied for over 2 decades with my Nagler (1s and 2s) collection. And over the last 1.5 years have rotated them out for Ethoi and an 9ES120, keeping only the 31NT5. I remain satisfied. When the 25ES100 arrives, I will buy one of them also and see if the 31NT5 remains in the collection.

My approach is similar - and I have a 25ES100 on order. I need to get the best out of my 22".
Clears,

#20 faackanders2

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:28 PM

My guess with ES is that they are a new company and didn't realize how long it would take to desin, develop, and get production capability to meet the demand. Hand built is they only build a few, Celland and/or assembly line if they sell lots of them.

Tsunami, Huricanes and other Natural disasters are on the rise also and if one raw amterial is taken out it may take time to redevelop or find alternative.

#21 mikemxyzzy

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:29 PM

Another factor may be that companies in general are reducing inventories and taking fewer risks. I think it works this way: there is a minimum quantity that must be ordered from the factory. Let's say it is 1000 for the sake of argument. In the "old" days dealers/wholesalers would order from the factory before they had anywhere close to 1000 orders from customers. They wanted to make sure they could fill any orders that came in. Nowadays they wait until they have almost the entire 1000 spoken for before they order from the factory. That's why the lead times are long and the ETA is unknown. They really don't know when they will get all of the orders they need.

#22 faackanders2

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:15 PM

Another factor may be that companies in general are reducing inventories and taking fewer risks. I think it works this way: there is a minimum quantity that must be ordered from the factory. Let's say it is 1000 for the sake of argument. In the "old" days dealers/wholesalers would order from the factory before they had anywhere close to 1000 orders from customers. They wanted to make sure they could fill any orders that came in. Nowadays they wait until they have almost the entire 1000 spoken for before they order from the factory. That's why the lead times are long and the ETA is unknown. They really don't know when they will get all of the orders they need.


That is called a "Pull" or "Just in Time" system based on customer demand, and minimizes inventory and risk.

The opposite is the "Push" system where market pushes the product and sells inventory that may not have all the demand to sell the inventory, hence the higher risk of being stuck with unsold inventory.

#23 Shneor

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:53 PM

I'm sure that quality control is the main reason for delays. Most of these eyepiece are made in China, and it seems to take a number of iterations of samples till they get it right. And even then, final QC is done is the US by the vendors.

Clears,

#24 faackanders2

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

I'm sure that quality control is the main reason for delays. Most of these eyepiece are made in China, and it seems to take a number of iterations of samples till they get it right. And even then, final QC is done is the US by the vendors.

Clears,


Ideal assembly production is to minimize scap waste also.
Do it right the first time, and I agree it may take practice to perfect assemby.






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