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NEB Rift

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#1 Asbytec

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

A couple days ago the NEB seemed to have a pretty bold rift. That feature, the barge like feature, the northern oval, and the bright streak in the SEB all caught my attention a few days ago. Been waiting for a chance to really observe this CM.

http://www.cloudynig...5531919/page...

Finally, last night I had a chance to sketch it. Lots going on on Jupiter. Where to start?

Well, first, I keep seeing a brighter area in the northern temp regions. I cannot say whether it is an oval or really just some lighter contrast between very difficult to see darker features. I suspect the latter.

Also, I am darn sure I captured my first white oval this season in the south (and only second one, ever.) It would not hold steady for long, but I got two brief glimpses. That's just how tough they are in smaller apertures. If they can be seen, spending enough time should afford a very rare peek at one.

Also in the south, one white band stood out quite easily. But, there is a hodge-podge of much fainter albedo going-ons down there, as well. It has kind of attracted my attention, but cannot really make anything of it. The trailing portion of the STrZ was a bit more gray than the preceding portion.

Working back north, the SEB. Well, what can one say, it was streaked with lighter albedo, probably the trailing end of the GRS wake. And darker albedo was evident as well. It was quite pretty. Er, interesting...

In the EZ, well, a tangle of interacting festoon features seems to dominate the meridian. Curiously, the EQ belt did to appear to have a bit of a crook in it. It was rather faint across this CM.

The NEB rift began to show shortly after I began at 1030 local, or 1430UT, and ended at 1630UT. That barge like feature was coming round the trailing limb, so I decided to go ahead and sketch it on the meridian and place other features relative to it. This allowed time to really observe and sketch, but also took time to do so.

I found the rift to be quite amazing. Broad, nearly extending the width (height?) of the NEB. And it just kept coming, too. At 1630UT when I finished observing, it was still rolling around the limb.

In the north, that interesting oval was pretty evident most of the time. Just above it seemed to be some albedo just tiniest bit darker. Oh, and there was a clear separation in the NTB on the trailing limb.

Whew...2 hours can be tough, yet rewarding. Thanks for sharing.

23 Nov 2012, Sys I 248 II 286. Seeing Ant I-II. Trans < mag 4, gibbous moon. UO 10mm HD Ortho and 1.6x Barlow gave 170x, no filter.

Edit: Got rid of the green hue and added some limb shading (thanks, Jason.)

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#2 Dean Norris

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:12 PM

Norme great sketch of Jupiter.

The oval that is in the north on the border of the NPR I believe is LRS+1 , ( Little Red Spot ). I too saw this and sketched it the other night. I saw a slight pinkish tone to it. The rifting in the NEB was also seen that night too. I like how you sketched the dual belts on the NTB on the following side.

Dean

#3 Asbytec

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:21 PM

Thanks, Dean. I saw and commented on your observations, too. Seems lots of folks have been enjoying the 4 day weekend. :)

#4 Andrev

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

Norme.

Another very beautiful sketch.

Andre.

#5 Asbytec

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

Thank you, Andre. It's a beautiful planet.

#6 frank5817

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:06 AM

Norme,

This is fantastic what you are seeing. Great sketch.

Frank :)

#7 Asbytec

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

Frank, thank you. Desert Rat imaged nearly this CM a day or so after my sketch. It's pretty amazing the stuff on this face, after the GRS passes from view.

http://www.cloudynig...5536407/page...

I did miss something that should have been caught - the NTB is much wider in this region. Well, in his image. Maybe I just got too complacent with it and didn't notice other than the darker "eyeliner" features.

Learning to pay better attention. Also, normally I just draw in a pretty standard belt of equal distance between it's edges. I am beginning to realize that's no longer accurate, either.

#8 Rutilus

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:33 AM

Great sketch Norme.
The detail visible on Jupiter at the moment is amazing.
The other night I observed it with my C9.25 SCT and the detail was staggering,
there is just so much going on with the planet at the moment.

#9 Asbytec

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:52 AM

Rut, so true. Been a great season thus far.

#10 Chopin

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:09 AM

Norme, what can I say, good work through and through. I see you've noted the pale band in the SPR more than once. It's interesting to note it has a stronger presence for you now. Ah, the advantages of learned observing. Fabulous work picking up that white oval at the top of the SPR. But even more impressive to me is the faint beige "oval" you caught in the upper NPR toward the preceding limb. That's simply a testament to your keen eyes. Bravo.

Regarding the NEB rift to the trailing side, first off, terrific observation. The way you have illustrated the feature gives an impression of swirling inner cloud structures. Is that intentional, or a product of the digital painting technique?

The limb shading looks great, BTW. :waytogo:

#11 Asbytec

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:30 AM

Jason, I am learning to really see Jupiter, more each time it seems. I can't take my eyes off it, not often for doubles as I'd like.

The pale beige spot was a maybe, it was a representation of something up there. Maybe the contrast between some very difficult darker albedo and not a spot. But, something. Same in the south, something is there. Not sure what, just some interplay between fleeting lights and darks.

The white oval was a pretty sure sighting. Not easy, and not persistent by any means. Just got lucky and it showed itself.

The paint program allow Jupiter to stand completely still, so of course it looks better than the real time in slightly fluctuating seeing. The sketch tries to capture the sum total of those great moments over 1 or 2 hours. I do try to capture the wispy nature seen. The program, sketch paint, excels at those brush strokes.

Thank you for commenting, I appreciate your kind words. It makes Jupiter that much more exciting for me.

#12 Ed D

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

Norme, your sketches have become my standard go-to reference for my observations of Jupiter. Seriously, you're that good! The information you present is a valuable tool.

I was up this morning at 1:30am, couldn't sleep. Sooo... I pulled out the Dob, and a couple of Plossls and barlow. By 2:00am the view was rock steady and razor sharp. I made it my mission to observe color in Jupiter. Try as I may, I just can't see anything more than a hint of subtle shades of beige, as well as the grey scale. I'll be trying different EPs, etc., as well as seeing if there is any difference observing from home compared to the 'glades. I'm sure my observing environment in Miami has a detrimental effect.

Thanks for sharing your awesome sketches and experiences with us.

Ed D

#13 Asbytec

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:01 PM

Ed, thank you. Glad you hit on that.

The colors in the sketch need to be a bit de-saturated to be more accurate. They are not that vivid, but they are those colors. Color recognition changes everything. It's no longer about resolving bright from dark nor big from small. It's about discerning detail through color.

I left them as is because I like the appeal, to really offer to the viewer a good concept of the colors that are there (as I perceive them.) Colors on Jupiter are just one or two shades from grey scale, but the colors are distinct enough where the sketch really does not /appear/ too much off. They are too vivid, but they do portray the colors as distinctly as they appear contrasted to each other on the planet. Make sense?

Your viewing in the everglades should be very good, probably as good as it is here. What I see most times is a hint of subtle shades, too. Much like seeing that pale blue in a double star's companion that looks mostly white. Once you recognize it, it is indeed blue. Speaking of blue, do you see the most bold color on the planet - the blue in the festoons?

To me, I really began to understand what I was seeing very recently. I noted the NTrZ looked ruddy. Dean and George later mentioned mentioned it was yellow. Ivano mentioned Jupiter was very yellow. Next night out, I looked to see. Sure enough, Jupiter is tawny in my 6". Its a color I always understood to be white, but it's not.

Realizing this made all the difference. When you can see the tawny hue, then the more pure whites pop out. Whites such as Dean and Paul report along the bases of the festoons. All of a sudden, sure enough. Those features are there and they are white. Importantly, because of these subtle hues, more detail can be seen.

The next revelation came one night observing the NTZ. Again, it was always white to me. My previous sketches show it as such. But, then it dawned on me, it was not as white as the white features I am now seeing on a regular basis. It was, indeed, grey. That was a shocker, too. And again, seeing that just added another level to observing Jupiter.

And once you see the NTrZ as grey, then compare with the main belts, well...they are no longer grey scale. They are a warm ruddy color...with white details spread across them. And now all the colors are indeed subtle, but distinctly discernible. Which is why I left the sketch saturated.

Learning to see color, starting with the tawny in my case, set off a chain reaction of discovering color on Jupiter. And once color becomes recognizable, the level of detail we can observe increases, maybe even dramatically. This revelation has allowed me to recognize the very subtle hues near the SPR. And I will continue to look harder and deeper into those seemingly featureless zones in hopes of reaching another level.

That one thing, recognizing the yellow and the white, then the greys, has been an experience and has brought observing to another level, as indicated in the sketches since Dean and George first discussed the yellow a few weeks ago. Once you recognize the real greys on Jupiter, by contrast the belts appear less grey. They appear ruddy, when once they were pretty much grey scale.

Truth is, the first time I saw any color in BA was just the other night. It was a very faint orange hue. And, truthfully, I am still struggling to see the salmon hue reported in the GRS.

#14 Dean Norris

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:37 PM

Norme,

Last night I got a good view of the NEB rift,barge preceding the rifting and the LRS+1. It was your sketch that brought these features to my attention. And fortunately the weather cooperated. Once we know where and what to look for it makes it so much easier to identify.

Dean

#15 Chopin

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:48 PM

Norme, I think your colors make for a fantastic reference. Each time I'm out I look for a little more of that subtlety. I believe that with repeated observations in good conditions it will get easier to see them.

#16 Special Ed

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

Norme,

Nice work. I like the larger scale of your presentation since you are including so much detail.

Interesting that that big rift in the NEB persists. I saw it back on Nov. 19th and I think you did too. Jupiter is dynamic but this apparition it seems even more so. :cool:

#17 Ed D

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

Norme, thanks for the great info. I sent you a PM reply.

Ed D

#18 rolandlinda3

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:38 PM

Excellent observing and sketch. Far beyond my capability.

#19 Asbytec

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:49 PM

Guys, your comments make observing Jupiter that much better. For that, I owe you a great Thanks-giving. Thank you, too, Rolandlinda. I am flattered in a good way.

Michael, yes, we've both seen it. And that's what struck me, it looked so much bolder than before. Good on you, and Dean.

Jason, sure. I think the key to seeing color is in it's distinctness from grey, not necessarily it's boldness. The colors are very subtle, yet distinct from one another. White stands out on tawny, and ruddy is distinct from grey.

Color adds another dimension to observing Jupiter. It's no longer about light and dark or big and small, but also about white on tawny.

#20 azure1961p

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:42 PM

Norme at the risk of sounding like Im throwing compliments around like some seasonal festive mood Ive gotta say straight away youtr descritpion of interpreting true colors and values fro sterile whites and greys to tawny shades and stuff sounds like the words of an accomplished and progressive observer hoaning the edge. Im really impressed - too because you sw white spots and I didnt :roflmao:

It looks like your above sketch is what my last sketch would have referred to in some manner. I saw that reverse festoon just as I was closing the session. Of course in reality it physically cant go headlong against that horrific force amd what it probably is , is the END of the festoon in front of it. A loop or arch from the beginning of its base then disappearing at its apex then reappearing right before it sinks back down into the NEB. When I saw it I was like: that just cant be. But, then I realized why it was from seeing ccd images in the past lifting the veil for me on "reverse" festooning. I did not that at the base of these festoons that there was a striking white spot in a couple locations.

Desaturating...

I would t go to far. The fact is [and Ive tried otherwise] if we REALLY drew it the REAL contrast these elsuive features present themselves we'd be studying it for about the same time it took you to see it too! Deepsky drawings have this thing too where you want to convey the elusive faintness but you can only go so far. MY sketches I did are more satuyrated than the actual view and I caved in on this because in order to show the lightest contrasts clear enough the bolder features needed to be stronger to keep the balance in check lest I have my belts to close to festoon intensity. Its not as REAL as I wanted it but I think in terms of fidelity, its closer to visual than the ccd imaging forum where rich oranges, mahogany and hershey brown is overstated. HST seems to nail the pastel shades nicely and I take my hat off to the team[s] but amateur CCD seems little too too saturation happy - on balance though, some of those guys are producing work that is nothing short of brilliant. I mean its beyond belief. I just wish it captured a little more of the gentler values.

Anyway, geez dont go monochrome. I think you nail it pretty close as it is. Festoons a little blue but all the other stuff seems spot on. If you dont mind the critique from a guy who hasnt even posted his drawings yet!!!

Pete

#21 Asbytec

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:03 PM

That's exactly what I thought, Pete, it just can't be yet there it is. It looks that way. But, yea, images show a tangled web of interaction. The visual interpretation is less detailed, of course. So, that's how it appeared. Hard to see what's really going on when you can capture only the highest contrast detail.

You think the festoons are too blue? Na, I don't mind at all hearing that from an accomplished observer and artist who has challenged me on Plato, 72 Pegasi, etc.

I get a nice blue on some, but less so on others. Other times it's really hard to see where the blue blends in with the ruddy hue of the NEB - and what color that really is. Sometimes it's just dark. Festoons seem to be darker (blue) than a few weeks ago where the blue was more pronounced. The blue does seem a be lighter and more distinct as the festoons jet into the EZ. I try to keep the pallet updated. Take away the bright distinct blue in exchange for a darker, less distinct blue without losing the hue.

Hmmm...thanks.

In an earlier thread you mentioned the NTZ to be very white. A few weeks ago, I would have a greed with you without thinking twice. Turns out, that's no longer true. I see that zone as distinctly grey and think the STrZ is the most white. Turns out that is no longer true, either. Near the tail end of that distinct sloping belt, the STrZ does appear to grey a little - by maybe one visual notch in hue. It almost blends with the darker grey just south. The difference is very subtle and impossible to define with a single pencil line delineating any sort of border, but the change in hue really is there.

#22 niteskystargazer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:28 PM

Norme,

Nice sketch of Jupiter's NEB Rift :).

CS,KLU,

:thanx:,

Tom

#23 JimPie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:46 AM

Norme,
Another great sketch of some interesting detail.

#24 Asbytec

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

Thank you both, Jim, those brighter arcs strutting north in the SEB were amazing...and a good reason to sketch the view.






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