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Mint ES82 8.8 vs MINT Nagler 9mm T1...which keeper

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#1 tcmzodiac

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:21 PM

Hello all,

I know, I know...only MY eyes can tell. However, what is your opinion?

1) I have a near MINT collectible quality very low-hours Nagler 9mm T1. Extremely fresh and clean condition.

My question...for those who know first-hand...does the ES82 8.8mm have any advantages over my Nagler?

Please drop any brand loyalty and tell me if that ES 8.8 can edge out my Nagler T1. My Nagler is so very clean...and out of production of course...if that ES 8.8 will meet/exceed the Nagler's performance, I will sell the Nagler, rather than to see it get beat up as I move back into high gear observing-wise.

Before I became aware of EP collecting, I would not have posted this...however...IF there is such a thing as collectible Nagler T1's...mine is that. I'd hate to see it get degraded on my watch....would rather have a similar view thru a replaceable EP...

#2 mgwhittle

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:57 PM

I think the 8.8 can edge out that Nagler in light throughput. Try out both and see if you can detect fainter stars in the ES, I bet you can. In my opinion of course.... :)

#3 Tank

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

I believe the transmission will be better in the 8.8 but other than that both EPs are great no major advantage in either just comes down to preferance.
My pick would be the 8.8mm but i optd fot the 100 9 ES N2 :)

#4 ibase

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:58 PM

Also have the Nagler 9mm T1 in mint "collectible" condition and am very happy with it. Naglers were designed for good edge correction on fast scopes (F/4) so if you're using a fast one, the Nagler might have a slight edge (pardon the pun) at the edge of view. On-axis, the difference would probably be hardly noticeable. It really depends on how much you're into EP "collectibles," I am, so wouldn't part with my N9T1 for an ES 8.8. (I do have a Meade 6.7mm UWA, rough equivalent of the ES82 counterpart, which I like too.) Just my 2 cents.

Best,

#5 csrlice12

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:39 AM

Just picked up an 11mmT1, should be in today or tomorrow from the guys in the white truck with the blue uniforms...I'll have to compare it to the 11mm ES82. I expect the ES82 will outperform it, but only slightly due to the coatings. That 11mm will see some focuser time, but mostly it's going to be treated kindly like it's 13mm big brother.

#6 Tank

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:29 PM

11T1 edge correction smokes the 11 ES N2 in a F4.5!!!

#7 csrlice12

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

I'll have to compare them when the 11T1 arrives. I know in my 10XTi f4.7, the 11mm is sharp to the edge and really gave the 13mm a run for it's money (actually seemed a little "brighter" then the 13mm, which I chaulk up to coatings.) Really looking forward to it, those 11mm T1 Naglers are pretty scarce.

#8 howard929

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:24 PM

I'll have to compare them when the 11T1 arrives. I know in my 10XTi f4.7, the 11mm is sharp to the edge and really gave the 13mm a run for it's money (actually seemed a little "brighter" then the 13mm, which I chaulk up to coatings.) Really looking forward to it, those 11mm T1 Naglers are pretty scarce.


Shouldn't the 11mm be brighter then the 13mm since the exit pupal is larger? ;)

#9 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:29 PM

I'll have to compare them when the 11T1 arrives. I know in my 10XTi f4.7, the 11mm is sharp to the edge and really gave the 13mm a run for it's money (actually seemed a little "brighter" then the 13mm, which I chaulk up to coatings.) Really looking forward to it, those 11mm T1 Naglers are pretty scarce.


Shouldn't the 11mm be brighter then the 13mm since the exit pupal is larger? ;)


The 13mm has the larger exit pupil. But perceived brightness can be confusing. Unlike an extended object, brightness of star does not change with increased magnification but the background sky becomes darker so contrast of the stars against the sky increases and it may seem brighter.

Jon

#10 JIMZ7

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:23 PM

The Nagler 11mm T1 was my favorite eyepiece back in the late 1980's early 1990's. You could take off the built-in Barlow lens & have a low power eyepiece instead. The cheapest price I found that eyepiece for was $165 with free shipping. It was Japan made-I think NJ-but the seller said I could pick a Japan or Korean made Nagler 11mm. Was he correct that Korea made some Naglers? :question:

Jim :refractor:

#11 Dunkstar

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:46 PM

The ES82 is $99... why torture yourself with choosing :grin:

Keep the Nagler for special occasions and use the ES82 the rest of the time.

#12 Keith

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

The Nagler 11mm T1 was my favorite eyepiece back in the late 1980's early 1990's. You could take off the built-in Barlow lens & have a low power eyepiece instead. The cheapest price I found that eyepiece for was $165 with free shipping. It was Japan made-I think NJ-but the seller said I could pick a Japan or Korean made Nagler 11mm. Was he correct that Korea made some Naglers? :question:

Jim :refractor:


I have never heard of Korean Naglers. Most of televue's eyepieces are now made in Taiwan ROC, as far as I know, all panoptics are ROC, as are type 4 and 5 Nags, radians, and even ethos. I am not sure about Delos. Type 6 naglers are Japan (some secret mojo perhaps ROC did not have capabilities for?)

As for T1 and T2 Naglers, all early ones are Japan, but the 7mm T1, 9mm T1, 16mm and 20mm T2 definitely have later ROC variants, and I think there were some 13mm's that might have made it to Taiwan as well. A birdie told me that the plossls are now ROC, but as of a couple years ago, the 1.25" ones were japan (55 went ROC earlier I believe)

All smoothside naglers are all Japan, and since the 11mm was only available for a short while, there are no non NJ 11's that I am aware of.

Many people in the market for rubber cup naglers, do prefer the Japan models over the ROC versions of the same EP. I have definitely seen differences in the 7mm's, and have heard many say the 20mm T2 was better as Japan as well.

Nowadays, it is not such an issue.

Note, the value of 11mm T1 has varied from $450-300 because of its rarity, but in todays economy, finding someone willing to pay $450 who does not already have one, is tougher, so they sell closer to $300.

#13 csrlice12

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:38 AM

The 11mmT1 arrived late yesterday afternoon. It was in great shape, the "screw marks" were VERY MINOR, hardly noticible, and the lenses were clean with no blemishes/marks. Even the outer case and barrels were pristine (is a Japan, circle N). It still had the original box. Of course, the clouds are her....I'll do a comparison when the weather clears (according to the news it WON'T be this week or weekend--clouds, clouds, clouds)

#14 tcmzodiac

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

SO.....will the learned ones venture an opinion as to which EP I should keep? I will only keep one.

#15 bdcmd

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:01 PM

Keep the Nagler; I use a 9 T1 on my SCT and find it works very well as my high power eyepiece. Can't imagine that the ES would be any better. The Nagler is definitely too cool for words, a real classic. :grin:

#16 csrlice12

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:23 PM

The 9T1 was considered one of the better T1s.

#17 tcmzodiac

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

Many thanks! My ultimate Q is....is the ES82 8.8 of equivalent quality view-wise? If so..Ill sell the 9mmT1 and let somebody else mess it up!

#18 slack

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

I did a lot of testing, day and night, comparing the 9mm T6 to the 8.8mm ES 82-degree in TV doublets. I found the ES to be the superior eyepiece (irregardless of price).

#19 csrlice12

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:58 PM

I really do like the 8.8mm ES82. it does have a flaring issue near the moon and Jupiter. But once in the eyepiece, the views are great. I understand a felt "washer" can be installed next to the field stop and it will correct the flaring. The 9mmT1 was considered one of the better T1s. Do you have the smooth barrel or the rubber grip version 9T1?

#20 tcmzodiac

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:10 PM

Thanks...I have the M-I-J rubber grip version.

#21 csrlice12

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:36 PM

Still a nice eyepiece, truthfully, I'd keep the 9T1, its a good eyepiece. Use it occasionally. Get the ES8.8mm, at $99 it's well worth it and use it for your everyday viewing. But on those nights where the skies are dark and the viewing is great--break out that ole 9T1.

#22 Jaimo!

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

Terry,
Don't be afraid to use the 9T1, used the can be had for ~$150ish so it's not that much more valuable than the ES8.8. Besides, I have never broken or damaged an eyepiece when I used it, I am guessing neither have you. :grin: You should take them out and compare the two, many of us would be interested in hearing your opinions. It does not have to be an in depth research article, it's just an opinion, how could it be wrong?

Good Luck,
Jaimo!

P.S. I have never compared the two, but I like the 9T1... It was my first wide field eyepiece! :grin:

P.S.S. Your guitars are AWESOME!

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#23 Pollux556

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

Beautiful duo !

#24 Scanning4Comets

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

I agree ! The 9mm T1 was my workhorse eyepiece for about 2-3 years when I had my 12.5" Reflector!!! I've had the rubber eye cup and smoothie versions! Both are excellent!

Cheers,

#25 astrodon

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:22 AM

I'd sell the 9mm T1 and look for a used 8.8mm UWA 4000 to (Meade) to go head to head with the ES! :shrug:
I know I'm crazy, but there is something about the old UWA that really delivers. I prefer it to the 9mm T1 in sharpness, contrast and slightly larger fov. The ES would probably still best it performance wise, would be my guess..






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