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Docter Aspectem 40x80 ED

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#1 AlbertoJ

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

Hello, Has anyone compared Docter Aspectem 40x80 ED to alpha spotting scopes (Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, Kowa, Nikon)?
Has anyone compared it to an awesome astronomy refractor like Takahashi or similar?
I´m interested in contrast and image quality.

#2 BillC

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:07 PM

Collect opinions, but realize they are OPINIONS. What you need is a composite of opinions from experienced users . . . who are ALSO familiar with the others you mentioned.

#3 edwincjones

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:33 AM

to somewhat answer your question

I got a miyauchi 22x60 pair of binoculars to use instead of a spotting scope, or as a two eyed spotting scope
but
later got a zeiss 65mm 15-45x spotting scope as the scope gave a brighter image at low mag and gave me the option of a higher mag

my conclusion
there is logic to the convential wisdom that spotting scopes work better for long distance birding

edj

#4 Andresin150

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:03 AM

I have the Docters and I'm really impressed with them.

Unfortunately, not too many scopes to compare them with, but I'll comment this:

I also have a Fujinon 40x150ED. I once compared it with an APO 150mm refractor from which I unfortunately forgot its brand. To compare, we used a 24mm Panoptic EP that yielded something like 37x, very near to the Fujis.

Even that the refractor was not a Takahashi, It had terrific optics, totally color free, and the stars where pinpoints to the edge. I have to say that I liked the image more in the Fujis, extension and brightness in DSO's, particularly in bright nebula and contrast in dark/bright nebula where superior considerably, even that the Fujis had slightly more magnification... the joy of using both eyes...

Now, comparing the Fujis with the Docters, the optical differences that I have seen are:

Stars are slightly fatter in the Docters and the image is, of course, dimmer, taking away some extension in some DSO's, or for example, when I observe the Ring Nebula sometimes it even seem like it has color in the Fujis, in the Docters is gray and not as obvious as in the Fujis.
The Docters have an unbeatable AFOV of 84 deg, and the best is that is 100% usable, because of the eyepiece dimensions and its long eye relief, most should be able to take it all, and sharp to the edge, no signs of curvature, coma, astigmatism, etc.. They behave like Apos too.

So, yes, the Fujis see deeper, but the Docters are incredibly near and beat them in portability and AFOV, so I think those should be considered seriously.

I like the specs in the Kowa Fluorites, but I've read that the edges are not as good, even sharper than the Docters in the center but the edges degrade, and their AFOV is good but not as impressive as the Docters. At this point, for me their only advantage is the 45 angled eps (for astro viewing), I really don't even care that is has interchangeable eps, I'm more into observing with one optimal magnification (in binoculars, telescopes need to be more versatile IMO)

#5 RichD

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:10 AM

The Docters have an unbeatable AFOV of 84 deg, and the best is that is 100% usable, because of the eyepiece dimensions and its long eye relief, most should be able to take it all, and sharp to the edge, no signs of curvature, coma, astigmatism, etc..


An 84 deg AFOV and sharp to the edge sounds to good to be true in a binocular system, are you sure they are strictly sharp to the edge? The term is often thrown around alot on forums like this when in my experience to get an eyepiece in a binocular system with even a sharp 70 deg FOV is a rare thing.

#6 Andresin150

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

Yes Rich, hard to believe no?
Those are incredibly sharp to the edge.
And no curvature, you don't have to refocus to get sharp stars to the edge, it simply shows everything sharply focused trough the entire FOV, and no reflections too. You can place Jupiter in the edge and still clearly see NEB and SEB, thats sharp to the edge to me :)
And because the quality of its optics, 2mm of exit pupil is not too much, as I thought before I observed trough them.
And you can take all the fov too easily, great ER and not too fat EPS (like in the Fujis)...

#7 RichD

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:05 AM

that's very surprising, wider than a Nagler eyepiece and sharp across it. I suppose the higher power helps with this to some degree but it's still very good to hear, must be impressive on open clusters.

#8 Andresin150

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:56 PM

Yes Rich,
I've been a fan of good optics for a while and I must say that this Docters have impressed me like no other equipment has done in some time.
Nothing in optics should be labeled as perfect, but this Docters are close. I encourage everyone, if possible, to give them a try, the experience using this binoculars is positively unforgettable :)
They are really not too expensive if you compare them with a couple high end spotting scopes fixed with a couple state of the art EPS.
Concluding, 84 AFOV deg 100% usable and sharp to the edge, Similar to APO performance with no residual color, long ER, not too fat EPs compared with others like the Fujis so will fit most users, extremely portable at less than 5Kg (for their size, magnification and performance),
The drawbacks for some are the fixed straight eps, that for me are of minor importance (straight) and of no importance at all (fixed, which in fact I even consider a plus)

#9 Andresin150

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:56 AM

Alberto, if you are buying, be sure that you get the new version.

For example, the version listed in the link below is the old one, look at the eyepieces, those are different, the same wide field but with very short eye relief so it would be difficult to see the whole field and or to use glasses, and also those are not ED and as I've read before, not sharp to the edge and present some residual color...

http://jayscottoutdo...binoculars-a...

I just ordered a new pair from Browe in USA, in Europe you should contact Markus L, he´ll get you the right one. I don't think there are many "new version" ones for sale in the used market, so beware of the used ones unless you can check their version...

#10 AlbertoJ

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:11 PM

Thank you very much for reply.

Edwincjones, Docter 40x80 isn´t a normal binocular but a double spotting scope like Kowa Highlander. Then its performance should be like a premium spotting scope.

Andres, I´m interested only in ED version. I knew about Zeiss and Docter old version (non ED), but thank you for advise anyway.

I suppose Docter isn´t as awesome as a quality astronomical refractor like Takahashi, Televue or similar, even at 40x power. I´m talking about pinpoint stars, black background, contrast and CA.
But I´m specially interested in how Docter compares to the last Zeiss, Kowa, Swarovski, Leica and Nikon spotting scopes.
Isn´t there anyone who has compared it to any of them?

Alberto

#11 AlbertoJ

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:21 AM

Andres, I´ve seen you´ve got a Swarovski 10x42. Are stars fatter in Docter than Swarovski?
I´ve got a Zeiss FL 7x42 binocular(I suppose similar to your Swarovski in stars) to make me an idea.

#12 Andresin150

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:33 AM

Alberto, I'll have an answer for tomorrow, today a new Docter is arriving! tonight I'll compare the stars apparent size with the Swaros. Remember mine are the old 2006 version, just EL, no Swarovision...

#13 Andresin150

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

Alberto, just clouds last night, will comment as soon as I have some stars visible...

#14 kcolter

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:34 PM

Alberto's post made me think again of something I have been wondering about. Is it possible to make a binocular out of a pair of the Zeiss 85mm spotting scopes? I have been very impressed with the image I see through this spotting scope. Perhaps the Docter 40X80 is exactly what I have been thinking about.

#15 Rich V.

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:50 PM

Is it possible to make a binocular out of a pair of the Zeiss 85mm spotting scopes?


It's been done here with Swaro 80mm spotters. Something of the sort could be done with Zeiss spotters as well, I suppose. Too bad it can't be done with the 45° versions.

I'm very impressed with the low power astro abilities of the Swaro HD spotting scope. I'm sure the Zeiss would perform well also.

Rich

#16 Andresin150

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:11 AM

Still no luck, too much clouds too compare with the Swaros... will try again tonight...
Guess it is the luck with new optics, the new pair arrived on Monday and has not seen a star for the first time :(

Something important to share, both Docters are exactly the same, I compared them yesterday and it was impossible to tell which one was each.
Before owning them, once Markus Ludes told me that of all the Docters he sold, all of them shared the same quality, and that he couldn't say that of the Kowas in which he saw that some where better than others... That at the time also made me incline towards the Docters and it was very nice to actually see it for myself :)

Also, I think I forgot when first reviewing them that the only distortion they have is some pincushion, contained but present. I later read that it was introduced to control the rolling ball effect while panning. I don't Know how it works but it is only present when looking at relatively near objects composed with straight vertical and horizontal lines such as buildings. When those objects are farther then it is not noticeable unless you are looking for it.

#17 Mr. Bill

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:52 AM

Also, I think I forgot when first reviewing them that the only distortion they have is some pincushion, contained but present. I later read that it was introduced to control the rolling ball effect while panning. I don't Know how it works but it is only present when looking at relatively near objects composed with straight vertical and horizontal lines such as buildings. When those objects are farther then it is not noticeable unless you are looking for it.


See this....

http://www.televue.c...&plain=TRUE&...

#18 Andresin150

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

Thank you Bill, very enlightening ;)

#19 Mr. Bill

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

Kinda comes down to "you can't have your cake and eat it too..."

Like many things in engineering, it's a compromise in design choices.

:cool:

#20 Andresin150

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:59 PM

Finally a good night, at least for a couple hours. Alberto, after going from one to another, and because of the image scale things get difficult, I concluded that the stars look slightly fatter in the Docters. The difference with the Fujinon 40x150 is more evident, in it the stars are the finest and sharpest I've ever seen in a binocular
The sky was not perfect but good enough, but allowed me to see some diferences due aperture. For example, the flame nebula in Orion was readily visible in the 150's, in the Docters I suspected it but at this moment I believe it was more my imagination and the fact that I know it is there than actually seen it with them.

#21 Mr. Bill

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:27 AM

Well, anyway you slice it, 80mm no matter how good is still 80mm.

#22 AlbertoJ

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:29 PM

Thanks Andres. Now I can imagine how good Docter is.
What´s your preference with it? Astronomy or terrestral.

#23 Andresin150

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:59 PM

Alberto, contrary that some would think, I prefer them for Astronomy.

#24 Andresin150

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:05 PM

Here is something... Just a few minutos ago I confirmed that their TFOV is exactly 2.2 degrees. I used my skysafari iPhone program to confirm it. It frames exactly to the border Aldebaran and star V993. Considering their 40x magnification, should their Afov be 88 degrees instead of 84?

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#25 Andresin150

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

The smaller circle is the 1.7 deg of the 40x150 Fujis...






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