Jump to content


Photo

zeiss

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 teelgul

teelgul

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 272
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2011
  • Loc: Australia

Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

does any of the new zeiss models have flatteners just like swaros EL and fuji FMT SX
cheers

#2 NDfarmer

NDfarmer

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

No.

#3 Simon S

Simon S

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2312
  • Joined: 07 Jan 2007
  • Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK

Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:59 AM

MDfarmer is that you don't know ore no they don't?
Im pretty sure they do not but I am unsure.

#4 Fomalhaut

Fomalhaut

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1005
  • Joined: 16 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:46 AM

No, they don't.

Chris

#5 NDfarmer

NDfarmer

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 214
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

Teegul and Simon:
Zeiss has chosen not to include field flattener oculars
in the new Victory HT. Nothing new, they have not had
this design in any binoculars.
Too bad, I like a flat field, and great edges. :smirk:

The new Zeiss Victory HT, is designed by hunters for hunters, a simpler lens design for maximum light transmission.

Jerry

#6 Fomalhaut

Fomalhaut

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1005
  • Joined: 16 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:10 AM

...a simpler lens design for maximum light transmission.


Not quite - the Zeiss Dialyts, Victories and now HTs use the Abbe-Konig-prism-system which has only four internal (plus all of them total) reflections, whereas the other prime roof binoculars (as well as the more affordable Zeiss) use the Schmidt-Pechan-design with six reflections (two of them non-total).
Plus, they use the newest Schott high transmission glass which they are the first to make use of. (Note: Schott and Zeiss are economically and scientifically interlinked.)
However, for bird- or game-watching nobody needs a flat field...
As for me, since I'm often using my small binoculars in daylight for watching mountain-ranges and other distant scenic views, I recently went for the Swarovision and consider their flat-field-design, though with "just" 90 % transmission, to be clearly superior for my needs.

Chris

#7 FrankL

FrankL

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 329
  • Joined: 30 Jul 2009
  • Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:14 AM

[/quote] Not quite - the Zeiss Dialyts, Victories and now HTs use the Abbe-Konig-prism-system which has only four internal (plus all of them total) reflections, whereas the other prime roof binoculars (as well as the more affordable Zeiss) use the Schmidt-Pechan-design with six reflections (two of them non-total).
Plus, they use the newest Schott high transmission glass which they are the first to make use of. (Note: Schott and Zeiss are economically and scientifically interlinked.)
[/quote]
I understand that one of the advantages of an Abbe-Konig (AK) roof over a Schmidt-Pechan (SP) is the AK has total internal reflection whereas the SP does not requiring mirroring (silver, aluminum or dielectric coating) of one prism slope to achieve total internal reflection. However, I did not realize the AK had fewer (4) internal reflections than the SP (6) which is correct. My question is - does having fewer internal reflections give better light transmission or improve the view in any other way? I would think not because it seems to me no light is lost in a reflection as long as the reflection is a total one. Am I correct?

#8 ronharper

ronharper

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2210
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2006

Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:08 PM

Frank, you are right, total means total.

With every bounce, the wavefront errors due to imperfect reflecting surfaces add up. If a surface itself is within 1/4 wave of perfection, the reflected light is only within 1/2 wave.
Ron

#9 Fomalhaut

Fomalhaut

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1005
  • Joined: 16 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

As I said: 2 out of the 6 internal reflections in the SP-prism-system are achieved by means of silvering, aluminizing or any other reflecting material-ing, which results in a certain percentage of light loss, whereas all of the 4 reflections in the AK-prism-system are total, which means no light-loss at all by reflection - just by transmission, which OTOH is reduced by using the new Schott-glass.

Chris

#10 FrankL

FrankL

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 329
  • Joined: 30 Jul 2009
  • Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:40 PM

As I said: 2 out of the 6 internal reflections in the SP-prism-system are achieved by means of silvering, aluminizing or any other reflecting material-ing, which results in a certain percentage of light loss, whereas all of the 4 reflections in the AK-prism-system are total, which means no light-loss at all by reflection - just by transmission, which OTOH is reduced by using the new Schott-glass.
Chris

Don't the very best dielectric coated SP prisms such as those made by Leica, Nikon, and Swarovski now produce total internal reflection same as on AK or Porro prisms? And if not, is the difference such that the human eye could even detect it?

#11 Fomalhaut

Fomalhaut

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1005
  • Joined: 16 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:36 PM

As I said: 2 out of the 6 internal reflections in the SP-prism-system are achieved by means of silvering, aluminizing or any other reflecting material-ing, which results in a certain percentage of light loss, whereas all of the 4 reflections in the AK-prism-system are total, which means no light-loss at all by reflection - just by transmission, which OTOH is reduced by using the new Schott-glass.
Chris

Don't the very best dielectric coated SP prisms such as those made by Leica, Nikon, and Swarovski now produce total internal reflection same as on AK or Porro prisms? And if not, is the difference such that the human eye could even detect it?


Already the Classic Zeiss 8x56 Dialyt was measured to have 94.4% transmission (day) and 92.4% (night) in a German hunters magazine. Like the 7x42 B/GAT* it was equipped with AK-prism-sets. OTOH, no modern SP-roof binocular achieves anything above 90% AFAIK.
Notice that only "total reflection" delivers 100% per surface, then there are entrance and exit reflections of the prisms and lenses plus internal absorption in the glass as well. Hence, AK-prism-sets have the potential of higher transmission than SP-prisms. But binoculars equipped with AK tend to be a bit longer than the ones using SP-prisms. OTOH, SP prisms are reported to be easier to manufacture as well as to align.

Chris

#12 Erik Bakker

Erik Bakker

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2006
  • Loc: The Netherlands, Europe

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

Just testdrove the new Zeiss Victory HT 10x42 today. In daylight. Amazing. Glad I have an HT 8x42 on order already. It's due to arrive any day now. The total viewing experience is extraordinary. Edge sharpness is not quite to EL Swarovision levels. But boy o boy, centersharpness, clarity, freedom from straylight, colorcorrection, feel of the bino in hand and Einblickverhalten (just love that word) are definitely worldclass.

Waiting for my own 8x42 HT to testdrive under the stars and see how that goes. I am excited :jump:

An yes, I had a EL Swarovision 8.5x42 on hand. And Zeiss Victory's FL 10x56 and FL 7x42. Very nice, but not quite up there with the new Victory HT 10x42. Of course the different magnifications make comparing them a bit more complicated :)


#13 steve@37n83.9w

steve@37n83.9w

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 296
  • Joined: 20 Jan 2011
  • Loc: Kentucky

Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:16 PM

Just testdrove the new Zeiss Victory HT 10x42 today. In daylight. Amazing. Glad I have an HT 8x42 on order already. It's due to arrive any day now. The total viewing experience is extraordinary. Edge sharpness is not quite to EL Swarovision levels. But boy o boy, centersharpness, clarity, freedom of straylight, colorcorrection, feel of the bino in hand and Einblickverhalten (just love that word) are definitely worldclass.

Waiting for my own 8x42 HT to testdrive under the stars and see how that goes. I am excited :jump:

An yes, I had a EL Swarovision 8.5x42 on hand. And Zeiss Victory's FL 10x56 and FL 7x42. Very nice, but not quite up there with the new Victory HT 10x42. Of course the different magnifications make comparing them a bit more complicated :)



Erik

You never know for sure about ergonomics until you have a particular bino in hand but to me everything about the HT just looks right. It looks like the focus wheel in between the double hinge would be ergonomic perfection and virtually bullet proof. When you get your 8x42 HT I'm really eager to hear how it compares with your 8x30 Habicht as far as on axis resolution.

Steve

#14 Erik Bakker

Erik Bakker

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2006
  • Loc: The Netherlands, Europe

Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:41 PM

I will let you know Steve. Today I again tested the 10x42 HT and now compared it with my Habicht 8x30. That little Habicht is something special :bow:

#15 Jae

Jae

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2006
  • Loc: New England

Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

Steve,

I know Erik is far away, but I'd be willing to send you my current year Habicht 8x30 and see what you think compared to yours.

PM me if you are game !

Jae

#16 Erik Bakker

Erik Bakker

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
  • Joined: 10 Aug 2006
  • Loc: The Netherlands, Europe

Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:03 PM

Steve,

The ergonomics in the HT series is very nice. However, they are about an inch taller than a similar Victory FL and noticeably heavier than the FL.

#17 HonoluluWalt

HonoluluWalt

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 426
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:08 PM

Zeiss Fls were reputed to be manufactured with a triplet objective. Is this true? Also, does the new Victory HT line have a triplet objective or a doublet?

#18 John F

John F

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 626
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2004
  • Loc: Washington State

Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:35 AM

However, for bird- or game-watching nobody needs a flat field. Chris


I think thats generally true for bird or game watching and also for a lot a terrestrial nature/scenic viewing. I recently acquired a near mint pair of Zeiss 7x42 B/GAT*P* and find them to be delight to use (thanks in part to their large true field, large 6mm exit pupil and their very easy to hand hold 7x power). However, there are times when the full field sharpness of the Swaros comes in handy (and that's especially true when they're being used from astronomical observing).

John Finnan

#19 ronharper

ronharper

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2210
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2006

Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

"Einblickverhalten"? Well I don't guess any of my binoculars have that. But, does the HT have Grippabilita'?






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics