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82 vs 100 EP's

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#1 cr500guy

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

I've got an Ethos that I bought for the FOV. It is very very nice but I've thought about selling it and re-investing in multiple lesser FOV EP's. I'm relatively new to the hobby. I have a 10" Dob. It came with the standard 10mm and 25mm ep's. I bought the ethos this summer and couldn't go back to the small FOV. However the Ethos are not cheap. What do you suggest?
I realize my best bet is to try others EP's and see but I'm curious if any have had the same experience I'm having. I was thinking of the 82 degree ep's.
Thanks :)

#2 Tank

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Tough call
I feel the 100 is nice but not really required personal preferance.
I actually prefer the 70-82 degree EPs
You can get a few ES 82
4.7
6.7
8.8
11
all for the price of one Ethos!

#3 kkokkolis

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:48 PM

Although I have a couple of 100 degrees eyepieces I still find 68-82 degrees as suficient, particularly the ones with great eye relief because in the 100s I can see easily around 70 degrees at once, the same amount I see with my Delos and Aspheric and somewhat less than with Naglers T4. So, yes, you can mix them and most people do. Even those with a full Ethos armament get that 31mm Nagler after all. 82 degrees is the closest, so the ES82 is a good option but you might even consider the ES100 that will go from 25mm down to 5.5mm to acompany your Ethos if you decide to go with a full 100 degrees set.

#4 desertlens

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

I'm more than happy with a max. of 82° although, like many others, I find the 68-72° designs to be most comfortable.

#5 star drop

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

Hi cr500guy and welcome to Cloudy Nights. Is it possible to hang onto the Ethos and purchase a quality 82° eyepiece with a similar focal length to your Ethos to help you decide?

#6 cr500guy

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:21 PM

Hi cr500guy and welcome to Cloudy Nights. Is it possible to hang onto the Ethos and purchase a quality 82° eyepiece with a similar focal length to your Ethos to help you decide?


Hmmm.. I've thought about it. I guess what I grapple with is $$$. Flipping the Ethos gets me rolling right off the hop.

#7 cr500guy

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

Tough call
I feel the 100 is nice but not really required personal preferance.
I actually prefer the 70-82 degree EPs
You can get a few ES 82
4.7
6.7
8.8
11
all for the price of one Ethos!


That's what I was thinking.

#8 cr500guy

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

Although I have a couple of 100 degrees eyepieces I still find 68-82 degrees as suficient, particularly the ones with great eye relief because in the 100s I can see easily around 70 degrees at once, the same amount I see with my Delos and Aspheric and somewhat less than with Naglers T4. So, yes, you can mix them and most people do. Even those with a full Ethos armament get that 31mm Nagler after all. 82 degrees is the closest, so the ES82 is a good option but you might even consider the ES100 that will go from 25mm down to 5.5mm to acompany your Ethos if you decide to go with a full 100 degrees set.


Your point about eye relief... that was concern I had.

Excellent responses everyone!

#9 John Huntley

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:26 PM

I have the 13mm, 8mm and 6mm Ethos and have, occasionally, thought about "downsizing". The very large FoV is only part of the Ethos story though and I would have to move to something that would deliver the sharpness and light transmission that the Ethos also provides. I can't think of an 82 degree eyepiece that I've used that does this (even Naglers) so I guess I'd be looking at the Pentax XW's and / or Delos eyepieces which do seem to have those other Ethos qualities while still maintaining a good FoV and comfortable eye relief.

The problem is though that the new prices of the above are close to what I'd raise from selling the Ethos eyepieces.

#10 Starman1

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

If another eyepiece has the sharpness-to-the-edge quality of the Ethos, and the color rendition, and the sheer joy of having the hyper-wide field, I haven't found it.
The Delos might be the same quality, but it has less than 1/2 the area of field!
I'm afraid once you have risen to the mountain top, accepting anything else is some form of compromise. From the top, every direction is down.
IMO, of course.

#11 la200o

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:21 PM

Personally, I'm hooked on that "spaceship porthole" effect with the Ethoi.

Bill

#12 johnnyha

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:00 AM

I used to have a bunch of Ethoi. Now I have just one, the 13mm Ethos, and I am perfectly comfortable barlowing it with any of my 1.6X, 2X or 2.5X barlows. The money from selling the other Ethoi was invested in a Leica ASPH Zoom and some nice ortho binoviewing pairs. I also use the 31mm Nagler T5 which I preferred to the 21mm Ethos.

#13 Mike B

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

Hi cr-guy.... welcome to CloudyNights! :grin:

Flipping the Ethos gets me rolling right off the hop.

Yeah, it would. But as we all know about rolling things:

From the top, every direction is down.


:lol:

'Tis a well-known phenomenon... folks selling off an eyepiece, only to later decide it was a mistake to do so, and need to re-purchase another. This is typically a lose-lose scenario... aside from the lessons learned thereby. Myself- i prefer to learn from OTHER's booboos, and not feel the need to repeat them. Doesn't mean i don't boof anyway, but... ;)

...and I am perfectly comfortable barlowing it with any of my 1.6X, 2X or 2.5X barlows.


Yes! This has been my approach, as well... it's kept me at ONE Ethos & ONE ES100, and i've no more itch for 100's.

So before you go selling off that prized Ethos, maybe spring for a good 2" Barlow? A $100 investment like this or that might get you that second EP you're after, without having to roll the Ethos.
:ubetcha: mike b

#14 Sarkikos

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

I have two ES 100 eyepieces. I only use them for big DSO, star vistas, and rarely to view the Moon. I thought of using them for planets in my non-tracking Dobs, but I have other eyepieces that are sharper and more contrasty.

Mostly they stay in the case.

Mike

#15 Mike B

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

Mostly they stay in the case.


My A/P observing buddies call our eyepieces "paperweights"... and you're only working to further that notion! :4

I thought of using them for planets...


And just because someone's using higher magnifications doesn't mean they're peekin' at planets! Oh my, no.

My very first glimpse of M57's central star in my 15" Dob was with my 9mm ES-100, Barlowed up to ~424x... in fact, using the very 2x Barlow i linked above! I then attempted the same with a ~1.6x Barlow ('Barcon') at ~300x... could still get an occasional blip sighting, tho was more frequently spotted at 424x. This has occurred a couple of times from my mag-5 backyard. 'Tis a bit easier from a truly dark site. ;) Conditions plus ample magnification is the key.

The advantage in using a 100* EP for such (non-planetary) things really comes into play at these higher magnifications- especially in an undriven scope! The larger field (per magnification) gives you more time to let the scope settle from focusing and/or nudging, and just stare comfortably for a period, awaiting a momentary stilling of the atmo- whence the faint+obscured star may wink out at you suddenly!

So one can easily make a case.... for getting these babies outta their case!
;)

#16 SteveG

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

Part of the fun in this hobby is buying, trying and selling eyepieces!

#17 Sarkikos

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

Mike B,

Mostly they stay in the case.


My A/P observing buddies call our eyepieces "paperweights"... and you're only working to further that notion! :4


You have AP observing buddies? :scratchhead: IME, APers and visual observers don't mix very well. Too often APers are worse than newbs when it comes to white light at a dark site... "What? You're still using your eyes to look at objects through your telescope?" :shrug:

As I said, I use the big eyepieces for the big stuff. That's their forte. Most other times, they stay in the fort. I try to do what makes sense. :ubetcha: Well, I try to, anyway.

:grin:
Mike

#18 Sarkikos

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

Mike B,

I thought of using them for planets...


And just because someone's using higher magnifications doesn't mean they're peekin' at planets! Oh my, no.

My very first glimpse of M57's central star in my 15" Dob was with my 9mm ES-100, Barlowed up to ~424x... in fact, using the very 2x Barlow i linked above! I then attempted the same with a ~1.6x Barlow ('Barcon') at ~300x... could still get an occasional blip sighting, tho was more frequently spotted at 424x. This has occurred a couple of times from my mag-5 backyard. 'Tis a bit easier from a truly dark site. ;) Conditions plus ample magnification is the key.

The advantage in using a 100* EP for such (non-planetary) things really comes into play at these higher magnifications- especially in an undriven scope! The larger field (per magnification) gives you more time to let the scope settle from focusing and/or nudging, and just stare comfortably for a period, awaiting a momentary stilling of the atmo- whence the faint+obscured star may wink out at you suddenly!

So one can easily make a case.... for getting these babies outta their case!
;)


Actually I did try the ES 100 9 for viewing planets, natively and with 1.5x and 2x Barlow setups. The image was not as sharp and contrasty as through my Orthos or Brandons, and no way close to a binoviewed planet image. Not worth repeating the effort.

And I have used my ES 100 9 Barlowed and my XW 3.5 (70 AFOV) for viewing planetary nebulae and other small DSO. I preferred the XW for its higher transmission and image clarity, but the extra wide field of the ES 100 9 gave me a more leisurely look.

I do see the advantage to the 100 degree eyepieces on nontracking Dobs for the smaller deep sky objects. But I have two other tricks to get around that drift-and-nudge problem: (1) My Baader Zoom lets me change effortlessly to a low power field to refind an object if necessary. (2) I have a 70mm finder scope which I align very closely to the main scope. Most of the time I don't even need to star hop when I look in my Dob. I can just position the object's location in the finder's crosshairs and it will be in the eyepiece of the Dob, even at medium-to-high power.

Mike

#19 GeneT

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:35 PM

Which Ethos?

#20 Mike B

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

IME, APers and visual observers don't mix very well.

No "us" and/or "them" mindset with these guys. We have a blast! :woot:

I try to do what makes sense.


Well, keep trying. It'll come.
:poke: :lol:

I preferred the XW for its higher transmission and image clarity, but the extra wide field of the ES 100 9 gave me a more leisurely look.


I've been using a new (to me) 10mm XW, going back/forth with the 9mm ES100... trying to determine which i like best. The differences in transmission/clarity, if they even exist, are nowhere near the magnitude of diff in field size!
But, as they say, it's certainly nice to have options.

And as options go, i really appreciate what a good Barlow brings to the eyes!
:grin:

#21 Sarkikos

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:50 PM

Mike B,

IME, APers and visual observers don't mix very well.

No "us" and/or "them" mindset with these guys. We have a blast! :woot:


Your APers must have had better training. The ones I've seen love white lights and laptops with no red filter.

Mike

#22 Sarkikos

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

Mike B,

I try to do what makes sense.


Well, keep trying. It'll come.
:poke: :lol:


Believe me ... I can be very trying! :poke:

:grin:
Mike

#23 Mike B

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

They use Kendrick "Observatory" tents. And even so, they're pretty good about maintaining low ambient lighting... they need their night-vision for when, during an exposure, they come wandering over to my Dob to take a peek! :lol:

#24 Dick Jacobson

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:50 AM

I was skeptical about the need for a 100° eyepiece until I purchased one. Now I'm hooked! If an 82° field is like looking out the window of a spaceship, a 100° field is like a domed window. You get a feeling of immersion in space when you can barely see the edge of the field. This is one of the chief reasons I prefer visual observing over just looking at images on monitors. I use other eyepieces with fields from 68° to 82° and they are okay, but I find myself spending most of my time looking through the two 100° eyepieces that I now own (ES 9 and ES 14). A few great eyepieces are better than a whole box full of second-rate ones.

#25 Mike B

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:39 PM

A few great eyepieces are better than a whole box full of second-rate ones.


This is what's known as a "true fact"! :lol:

I was skeptical about the need for a 100° eyepiece until I purchased one. Now I'm hooked!

Kool. But whatever else ya do, do NOT look thru a binoviewer... lest you develop THAT addiction, as well.
:evillaugh:

It's already too late for some of us...






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