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CCDware installation issues?--I stand corrected

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#1 robininni

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

I have tried to install both PemPro and CCD Inspector to try out. Neither one will properly install. I find this very irritating that two different softwares from the same vendor both won't install when I don't have such issues with any other software to date except for one which I no longer use.

I find it unacceptable when modern software doesn't even install on a fully updated, modern computer.

I get a 'fatal error' at the out set of trying to install Pempro 2.

What would be so special about Pempro if Maxim DL, Backyard EOS, ASCOM 6, Artemis, Starry Night Pro Plus 6, NexRemote, Nebulosity 3, Ph.D Guiding, and so on and so forth don't have any trouble running on my system?

I refuse to trouble shoot stuff like this any more so unless I can be provided a quick "oh I know" fix, I will pass on CCDware products I guess.

I edited this to make is more constructive and less 'pissy' sounding... how did I do? :)

EDIT: I DID troubleshoot after all and got it to work. What can I say, I can't stand to be defeated by software. Still irritating though at what I had to do to get it to install.

Rob

#2 wolfman_4_ever

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:59 PM

Sounds like End User error to me..

I run Win 7 X64 and every piece of CCDWare software.. As do hundreds/thousands of other users..

Get your fact straight before posting innuendos and falsehoods as if its a global issue when the fact is your computer literate skills are in fact, very illiterate.

Your post makes it sound as if CCDWare is scamming people.

Nice Signature.. Very little experience with all that equipment? In for a penny, in for a pound I guess.. The little experience must carry over to those L33T computer skills too huh? Because your troubleshooting experience is not up to par...

#3 Mike Wiles

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:04 AM

Now, go install it on a different PC. Troubleshooting 101 dictates that you should eliminate the PC itself as a potential source of the issue by proving that you can recreate the issue on another PC. Badmouthing the developer before you've exhausted all of the options and dismissing the software outright simply because you can't get it to install on your machine is bad form at best. I've had no issues with CCDWare's products as well as finding their support to be as close to top notch as it gets. John Smith and Ray Gralak respond to issues usually within a matter of a couple of hours. Read further through their support forums and you'll see that they're also blessed with the patience of saints and it gets tested on a regular basis. I used PemPro 15 minutes ago to polar align the mount, and I'm running CCDAutoPilot as I type this. I've installed all of their software packages on multiple machines over the last couple of years and there haven't been any problems.

#4 psandelle

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:04 AM

Not sure what's going on, as all their software works fine on my new laptop (and some old desktops I've tried it on), but do you have another computer to try it out on? I always have an extra laying around, just in case. Fatal Errors always worry me because memory (in either main ram or video mem) can be pushed by some programs and you get that sort of message when a chip is bad.

I say give it a try on another computer or two and see if you get the same message.

Paul

#5 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:17 AM

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#6 wolfman_4_ever

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:24 AM

Don't edit your original message to make it look like you're an "Angel"

I don't need to know you personally. I know of your kind.. Most don't know an RJ-11 from an RJ-45.. "HEY MA! WHATS AM I SUPPOSE TO DO WID THIS HERE PHONE CORD!"

I've had my "2" cents.. I'm done with this wacked thread..

#7 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:27 AM

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#8 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:50 AM

I will say this for John Smith of CCDWare, he already replied to an email I sent him about an hour ago about my installation woes. That is impressive for response time to acknowledge my concern.

Rob

#9 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:34 AM

Okay, taking Mike Wiles' sage advice, I downloaded the PemPro installation file to 3 other computers at my house and I got 50/50 results overall now. Two of the computers, it seems, it will install fine on (got past the point where I would get the 'fatal' error)and the other one I get the same thing I get with the computer in my observatory. So at this point I don't know what to think.

EDIT: I did get it to install on the other two computers but I had to do some tinkering with adding a .ocx file on one and using the DOS command prompt on both to run the installation using the /qn switch.

I'll give it a try next chance I get!

Rob

#10 elbee

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:31 AM

i use every software product ccdware has to offer. all excellent and absolutely top notch service. installed and ran successfully on my winXP machine and now win7(x64). your best support will always be on their forum. i think you will find the (very) happy users far exceed the dissatisfied users.

i had nebulosity on my earlier XP machine and that did not result in any installation issues.

hope you get the issues resolved. my experience suggests negative press about ccdware is not justified.

#11 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

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#12 Alex McConahay

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:31 AM

You know, I think there are some issues with some of the software we rely on. And to deny it with examples of "I got it to work," misses the point. On the other hand, one guy not getting it to work does not prove the software useless.

I have a few observations of the dynamics of the astronomical software industry, and a few things need to be said.

First off, with a few exceptions, these are truly small operations. My impression of walking around the Advanced Imaging Conference, is that two thirds of the people who bring us these programs are really guys who do (or did) something else for a living. Then they wrote a little something to help them in their own personal imaging, and one of their buddies asked to use it, and another, and so forth, until it became a commercial product. Then it grew, and grew. Some operations have grown way past this stage and become full fledged companies, with testing and development staff and programming specialists, system analysts, and all that. But many are still one or a few people just trying to keep up with the developments in astroimaging and equipment and computers. Some are still guys doing it out of their back pocket at home while they still have a day job.

Secondly, this means that all the testing that we may want to go on simply cannot happen. We are often, in effect, the Beta Testers, even after the product is issued as a final product.

One other thing that needs to be said-----there are an awful lot of switches, buttons, wires, configurations, specifications, and all that that must be set in an awful lot of places to get this stuff to work just as it is advertized. A one-man shop simply cannot anticipate all these different permutations. I for instance could not get one executive program to take dawn flats because it would report that it was waiting for the sun to come up--even though the sun was already shining. What had happened is that the planetarium program it was trying to control had disconnected when the executive program had temporarily parked the mount waiting for dawn. I finally figured this out, and found the option in the planetarium program to end this (IT was three sub menus and a scroll down a couple of screens before I found it.)

Microsoft (open architecture) and other huge software writers would handle this huge number of permutations by putting a huge number of people on the problem, testing all the possible variables. Apple (closed architecture) would handle it by restricting all the equipment it deals with to a very strict set of interfacing standards, preferably their own products. Let us not get into the other implications, benefits, and drawbacks of the open versus closed architecture approach. But our astroimaging software writers are giving us open architecture without a thousand people to test the permutations.

Now, it is true that these guys are active participants in their own support forums and the Yahoo groups that serve as their support forums. And we all hear, repeatedly, that these guys "give great support--all you have to do is contact them....." But really, would we buy from Microsoft or Apple if their advertising slogan was....."It may not work for you, but it has really great people to help you out when it doesn't."

Sorry for the long post, but really, I think the state of the software is not really good. But it is better than sitting there staring into an eyepiece pushing the up down left right button while guiding a star. Considering it is from a bunch of guys doing it almost as a hobby, we are lucky. Of course if it is a hobby, why did the software cost $395? No easy answer.

Alex

#13 elbee

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:35 AM

One computer it would not install on is a Vista Home 32-bit PC...My observatory computer it would not install on is a Windows 7 Home 64-bit PC.


there's the problem :foreheadslap: "Vista Home" and "Windows Home"... never buy Vista and never buy 'Home' editions. :lol:

seriously, i suggest only buy the 'Pro' version of windows. i have seen far too many 'this doesn't work' with lesser versions. did vista ever work for anything? :o

sounds like you did an excellent sleuthing job to get it working.

#14 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:37 AM

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#15 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

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#16 Mike Wiles

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

So, you don't like PemPRO. There are other ways to record/train periodic error correction in your mount. Maybe you could just uninstall it and stop the character assassination now? Is Ray aware that you're over on Cloudy Nights ripping apart his software and posting your conversations with him so that you can critique them further?

The software runs well on thousands of PC's - except for your yours. Hopefully, being the savvy computer software consumer that you are - you're dealing with the full featured trial version and you can simply uninstall and move on.

#17 CounterWeight

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:19 PM

It can certainly be frustrating, and there's already enough of that going around. I don't want to add to it.

I hail back to before there was a distinction between 'programmers' and 'hardware' types. Speaking as (formerly) a sometimes programmer on very many systems and achitectures and operating systems, from assembly/machine on up if software does not install properly it is NOT the fault of the 'computer' or the OS it is running. It is entirely that fault of whatever 'installer program' is used.


The installer program must do all the global checking and identification / locating and provide whatever decision switches are up to the user or intelligently determine best fit, or even if it is a suitable platform to run on and proceed accordingly. These began to be provided some time ago to end users as an option to manually installing the software and playing in system registry's a whole slew of other stuff as programs and operating systems became more complex and in ways 'versatile' while keeping reverse compatability and interoperability while sometimes sharing common resources so as not to clog up the system with 'stuf'.

There was a terrible underlying assumption that all would followin good standard rules and discpline in the various programs. Often not the case as folks used things in specific hardware and software and used 'tricks' to make their programs work.

This 'auto-install' is an entirely sepirate 'thing' from the progam you are tying to install, or the system you are installing it on. So it is this "auto-install" that needs fixin' and nuttin else.


I think it is important to note that when these don't work properly it is hugely frustrating, and worthwhile to post about. Auot-install software should not be 'another joker in the deck'. I think it equally important to say what exactly it is being installed on and with/how, as it all matters in the details. It matters to others who might be considering doing the same (who may come upon this thread in the future), and to the person vending the program to be installed.

I find it unacceptable when modern software doesn't even install on a fully updated, modern computer.


I completely agree! Inattention to this is unacceptable, and makes me wonder what else wasn't paid attention to as it 'mostly worked'. I just think it also important to try and be precise and count to ten or 100 or 1000 -whatever it takes before you post to try and state the problem in a way that will help folks now and in the future.

#18 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:10 PM

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#19 Gargoyle

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

Hhhhmmmm....... an interesting post. I don't post often, but this one is asking for some input.

I've corresponded with Ray on numerous issues over the past years (CCDStack and PEMPro) and have found him to provide very direct advice, supportive of solutions that always worked for me. Additionally, he has been astonishingly prompt in responding to my questions.

Nevertheless Rob, you are having (or had) problems with some of CCDWare's products and level of support. That's unfortunate as that is not the experience I have had. I wish you would have had a more positive experience and would have been able to use CCDWare's products with a different ending. In the end CCDWare's software did not work out for you. We're all entitled to our own opinion formulated by experiences and knowledge, do you agree? You've voiced yours, others will agree, disagree and-or offer comment as that by nature is what this forum is about.

Perhaps you should move on and look at other software to fulfill your needs. And if you decide to do so, I'd be very interested to know your findings on ease of implementation, usability and technical support. Best of luck to you!

Jerry

#20 robininni

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

Hhhhmmmm....... an interesting post. I don't post often, but this one is asking for some input.

I've corresponded with Ray on numerous issues over the past years (CCDStack and PEMPro) and have found him to provide very direct advice, supportive of solutions that always worked for me. Additionally, he has been astonishingly prompt in responding to my questions.

Nevertheless Rob, you are having (or had) problems with some of CCDWare's products and level of support. That's unfortunate as that is not the experience I have had. I wish you would have had a more positive experience and would have been able to use CCDWare's products with a different ending. In the end CCDWare's software did not work out for you. We're all entitled to our own opinion formulated by experiences and knowledge, do you agree? You've voiced yours, others will agree, disagree and-or offer comment as that by nature is what this forum is about.

Perhaps you should move on and look at other software to fulfill your needs. And if you decide to do so, I'd be very interested to know your findings on ease of implementation, usability and technical support. Best of luck to you!

Jerry


Hi Jerry,

Thanks for posting. You're right.

Rob

#21 robininni

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:13 AM

Okay, public confession time:

Being slightly OCD I decided to go ahead and do a 'repair upgrade' reinstall of windows 7. Just to see....

Well, after doing so both PEMPro 2 and CCDI install fine. I already apologized to Ray on his support forum for being so sure (and absolutely wrong) about the issue but I wanted to let you all know too that I was indeed wrong and the problem was my windows 7 installation somehow or another.

I just let the fact that the system is only 2 weeks old (and I wouldn't ever assume it came from the manufacturer already screwed up)and that all my other software was installing fine lead me to believe it was weakness with PEMPro and CCDI.

Regardless, I really don't have an excuse and I have been kicking myself for my ranting ever since this afternoon when I decided to delete all my whiny posts. I am terribly sorry to have caused such a stink about my installation problems and I am thankful that Ray is a very nice guy with a ton of patience who was professional and courteous to me every step of the way.

Thanks,

Rob

#22 Charlie B

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:32 AM

Been there done that and wear the scars.

Charlie B

#23 psandelle

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:51 AM

Glad to see you got it figured out and you were courteous enough (rare these days) to apologize to Ray (we've all been there...maybe not in apologizing to Ray, but...you know, saying/typing something we weren't happy about later... :) ), but most important: you get to use CCDware stuff on your computer!

Paul






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