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SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits?

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#1 guyroch

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:10 PM

Not sure if this is the right place to post but I've been hanging around here for a while now so here it goes.

I'm have some problems installing the Orion 64 bits on Windows 8. I just won't recognize it. I'm using the same 64 bits drivers I had installed on Windows 7 several times before.

Anyone else not being able to install the SSAG drivers on W8?

Thank you,

Guylain

#2 shrevestan

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:24 PM

No idea. I've got it working on mine. I did an upgrade on top of my Win7 though if that makes a difference.

#3 mmalik

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

Read this... thread if it helps. I ran into similar situation with 3MP SSAG. I got it to recognize (details in the other thread) but never got it working with PHD and ended up returning it. Long story short, I tried Lodestar, wasn't happy with it either. Finally settled on SBIG ST-i; works great with PHD.

Note: 1.3MP SSAG (the regular one everyone uses) should work fine on all platforms.

Lodestar thread here.... Thx

#4 guyroch

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:56 AM

Thanks for the links. I have everything running except for the SSAG and SX Filter Wheel.

The Loadstar, Atik 460EXM, and SBIG 8300 works just fine.

Guylain

#5 waassaabee

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

Have you tried uninstalling the device, drivers and all registry references, then doing a fresh (admin) install?
I had probs with an older QGuide, and that was the only way I could fix it.

#6 guyroch

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:56 AM

I tried uninstalling and re-installing the drivers to no avail.

I made a full disk image on my W7 before I wiped it out to install W8 a few weeks ago.

Last night I made an image of my W8, then recovered my W7 image, extracted all drivers using DoubleDriver. Then recovered my W8 image and did a restore for the SSAG drivers on W8. All drivers were successfully recovered but the SSAG still won't connect. Windows keeps giving a device did not install properly each time I plug it in :(

The SSAG and the SX Filter Wheel are the only 2 devices not working for me. I'm now contemplating using Hyper-V with W7 (or XP even) on my W8 laptop for my astro stuff :(

The other alternative for the FW is to purchase the ATIK unit (to pair with my 460EXM) and forgo the SX Filter Wheel. But this won't fix my SSAG issue :(

I only use the SSAG when I go offsite, grab and go. I can somewhat live without the SSAG given I mainly use the Lodestar at home but I can't use my 460EXM efficiently without a filter wheel.

Drivers, drivers... :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

Guylain

#7 waassaabee

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:42 AM

Guylain, I feel your pain! Getting some of the astro gear connected can be a real headache, then getting it all playing together nicely can be troublesome too. You said you uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers, but did you insure the registry entries were removed? I found that running CCleaner after uninstalling revealed the registry entries were still there. After 'Fixing' those entries and doing a clean install is where I had my best luck.
Has SX been able to provide any input for getting the FW to work?

#8 guyroch

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

Guylain, I feel your pain! Getting some of the astro gear connected can be a real headache, then getting it all playing together nicely can be troublesome too. You said you uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers, but did you insure the registry entries were removed? I found that running CCleaner after uninstalling revealed the registry entries were still there. After 'Fixing' those entries and doing a clean install is where I had my best luck.
Has SX been able to provide any input for getting the FW to work?


Thanks Gary,

I did not clean the registry. Will try that this weekend.

Regards,

Guylain

#9 SKYGZR

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:34 PM

Why not just ditch W8? For all my asto related stuff I'm still using XP, little or no hassles.

#10 waassaabee

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

Why not just ditch W8? For all my asto related stuff I'm still using XP, little or no hassles.


I have stuck to this mantra for years until a few weeks ago when I came by a newer 17" Win7 laptop by default. I now believe that Win7 is the new XP. Win8... the vote is still out. But 7 is fine in my book.

#11 guyroch

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:18 AM

Why not just ditch W8? For all my asto related stuff I'm still using XP, little or no hassles.


I have stuck to this mantra for years until a few weeks ago when I came by a newer 17" Win7 laptop by default. I now believe that Win7 is the new XP. Win8... the vote is still out. But 7 is fine in my book.


My astro laptop is an ASUS G75V quad core with 16GB ram... it can take W8 and a few VMs running W7 and/or XP. I'm not a big fan of running a VM but I may have no choice :(

I hope I'll have better luck over the weekend trying to make the SSAG and SX Filter Wheel working on W8.

Thanks for all the input.

Guylain

#12 mmalik

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:14 AM

I hope I'll have better luck over the weekend trying to make the SSAG and SX Filter Wheel working on W8.


For a POC (proof of concept) and establishing a baseline, I would suggest first trying on a “clean” install of Windows 7 (NOT a VM) unless you have tried it already. Once you have a working model on Windows 7, going onto Windows 8 and trying the same setup/drivers would be advisable.

One option would be if you can dedicate a Windows 7 PC as a sandbox that you could re-image at will (assuming you would have a clean image ready to go) for each new test; if all goes well then repeating the same setup in Windows 8.

If separate PC is not an option, dual booting into Windows 7 and 8 will be even better option. Even with dual/multi boot systems, Windows imaging comes in handy; Windows can image all partitions and/or dual/multi boot systems. I employ re-imaging approach for everything, not just drivers/devices. I can provide you more details if you like.

In short what imaging buys you is a way to revert back to your last-known-good setup without having to worry about cleaning registry and other areas on a failed attempt. You seem to be well versed in OS imaging, exploit imaging to test first in Windows 7, get it working in Windows 7, and then go on to Windows 8 on a dual boot system; on a failed attempt start all over again without worrying about the cleanup. Fall back image/s don’t have to be just the OSs, it/they can be a composite of all known-good/’successfully tested’ apps/devices. Thx

#13 guyroch

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

Well… a weekend nightmare for me :(

The SSAG and SX Filter Wheel will simply not work on my ASUS G75V Laptop with W8. The funny thing is that it all works on my W8 desktop… but not my laptop which I use for imaging :(


1) I did a fresh install of W8, not an upgrade, a full fresh install.
2) Installed the SSAG 64 bit drivers and device shows as unknown device.
3) Plugged the SX FW and it comes up as HID unknown device too.
4) Did a full image of that fresh W8 disk just in case
5) Installed a fresh W7 Ultimate, not an upgrade, a full fresh install.
6) Installed the SSAG 64 bit drivers and device is immediately found and it works A+
7) Plugged the SX FW and it works just fine… but not always. It works 9/10 the first it is connected after a reboot. If I disconnect it and reconnect it will work 5/10 times. Do this a third time and the chances of it reconnection are 1/10. Once the SX FW does not connect at least one time I MUST REBOOT otherwise it will NEVER reconnect. Once I reboot the cycle starts over and I have a 9/10 chance it will connect the first time.
8) Did a full image of that fresh W7 disk.
9) Exported the working W7 drivers using Double Drivers.
10) Restored the W8 image from above.
11) Restored the working W7 drivers obtained with Double Drivers.
12) Connected the SSAG on W8 with the DD drivers exported from W7. Still does not work.
13) Connected the SX FW on W8 with the DD drivers exported from W7. Still does not work.
14) Did a fresh install of W8 32 bits to see if it would work in 32 bits versus 63 bits. Still no luck.
15) Restored the W8 image and installed Virtual Box with W7. W7 inside the VM did not work… felt a bit stupid here because the host OS was W8 and the VM OS was W7. Of course this would never work because the host OS needs to recognize the device in order to pass control to the VM OS.
16) Restored W7 and re-installed ALL of my applications… 14 hours later I almost have a full functional W7 laptop again with all MS update.


EXTREMLY BUMMED OUT that I was not able to keep W8 on my laptop. One of the main reason I wanted W8 is because my eyes are not what they used to be when I was 20. I really liked the ability to keep the maximum resolution in W8 and still individually increase the font size of menus, titles, etc. For me this flexibility is worth a lot, I feel my eyes are not as tired after a long day in front of the PC.

My future plans… the SX FW has got to go. In W8 it does not work and in W7 it is flaky at best; though it does connect 9/10 times on W7 after a reboot this is simply not acceptable to me. I will be placing an order for the ATIK EFW2 this week. As for the SSAG I only use it in the summer time as my grab and go guide cam. I will also be replacing the SSAG with either another Lodestar or the SBIG guide cam. W8 will only come back on my trusty ASUS G75V laptop once I have replaced these 2 devices. This means I have to use a lower resolution (text a bit fuzzier but bigger fonts) or use an on-screen magnifying glass :(

Thank you for all your help,

Guylain

#14 mmalik

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

First and foremost, I would be happy with Windows 7 if all works well. Windows 7 is a great platform for ‘production’ work. With that said, while you have a working platform in Win 7, keep working on Win 8 troubleshooting.

Here are some suggestions regarding testing on Windows 8:
• Don’t use Double Drivers; instead see if you can locate where the drivers are located after the install or where they get expanded. Try updating the drives manually in Win 8 by right-clicking on the ‘unknown device’ and pointing to the folder where the drivers are located or where they get expanded.

• In case you can’t find the correct location of drivers in Win 8, try copying the installed/expanded drivers from Win 7 (that’s if you know where they are located or get expanded in Win 7) and then repeating the manual ‘unknown device’ discovery process in Win 8. I am quite sure drivers will work in Win 8 if you point the ‘unknown device’ to the correct location of the drivers.

• If you are using USB 3.0 hardware ports, try connecting the device/s to the USB 2.0 port if one is available on your laptop. I have seen some devices/apps will not work on USB 3.0 ports, e.g., PHD is one example in my case.

For setting up your test platform on Win 8, here are my thoughts:
• Clean install of Win 7. When doing clean install, don’t dedicate entire hard drive to Win 7; leave some space for other partitions to be used by Win 8 (described below).

• Install/configure all your apps/devices in pristine condition in Win 7, including all the MS updates.

• Install Win 8 'OS ONLY' on the next available partition.

• DO NOT install any drivers/apps in Win 8 yet; create a pristine image of dual boot of Win7 and Win 8 at this time; remember to include the partition that Win 8 resides on in the image.

• At this point you would have a fully functional/configured Win 7 and just base OS Win 8.

• Now you are all set to try testing new drivers/devices in Win 8. Any time you have an issue, just re-image and you’ll be back to a fully functional Win 7 and clean Win 8 base (OS) for another round of testing.

Hope this helps. Dual/multi boot setup of my system here.... Thx

#15 SKYGZR

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:51 AM

I still believe that XP32 is possibly the best OS for Astro use (Capture/Control/Mount Connect, etc...) I am using W7-64 Home, Quad Core, 7GB Ram on the main "in house" image processing 'puter, and it is a better platform for that environment. I have "all the guts" to build a 6 Core W7-64 Prof, yet have not yet.

My laptops for the field (w/exception of (1) older unit w/ W2K), and the dedicated Obsv 'puter all run XP32, and they're pretty much problem free.

I like W7, yet not for Asto related, and in no "hurry" to complicate things going to W8.

#16 guyroch

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

I just came back indoors after a very frustrating night. First clear night in about 2 months and my SX filter wheel was not cooperating in W7.

The wheel would connect and went through it's initialization sequence by making a full cycle. It usually stops at the 1st filter position once it's done... but this time it would never stop turning. I just sent an email to Starlight hoping I'll get a response.

In the meantime however I have not wasted any time, I have just places an order for the Atik EFW2 from OptCorp.

I'm still hoping that Starlight eXpress will do something given it's only 7 months old and still under warranty.

Guylain

#17 guyroch

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:25 PM

I finally got the SX Fitler Whell back from Terry in the UK. He has updated the PCB board firmware and now the FW works fine on both W7 and W8. WooHoo.

Now to the SSAG... it still won't connect. Windows 8 simply does not recognize the SSAG.

Anybody else with this issue?

Guylain

#18 zerro1

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:36 AM

Maybe try viewing the VID/PID of the "unknown device" to see if Win 8 is getting the correct info?

#19 guyroch

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:15 AM

VID and PID are not properly identified. The following is from the unknown device driver.

Device USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1 had a problem starting.


The one in the ssag.inf is VID_1856&PID_0011 & VID_1856&PID_0012


Thank you for your help,

Guylain

#20 bluedandelion

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:50 AM

The QHY forum could be of help. The proprietor and chief designer of is very friendly and responsive guy. The SSAG is a partially disabled QHY5 as you might know.

Ajay

#21 guyroch

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:02 AM

The QHY forum could be of help. The proprietor and chief designer of is very friendly and responsive guy. The SSAG is a partially disabled QHY5 as you might know.

Ajay


This is a great recommendation I did not think about. I'll check it out.

Guylain

#22 zerro1

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:20 AM

I just edited my SSAG.inf file and inserted an additional instance in the driver file instruction with the VID/PID that was being reported by the camera. ( I know, it's cheating but it worked) the QHY stuff is helpful from an informational point but unless you plan on converting it to a QHY5, using their files can be problematic with an SSAG

To do it you have to go to Device manager, under properties for the "unknown device" and look at the actual ID number. The error report might include some characters that are not actually part of the number.

Here is an example of what I did in the file. You can see the Base and IO lines I added under NTx86. You would need to include them(with your VID/PID) under the "AMD64bit" section

[ORION.NTx86]

"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0011
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0012
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\Vid_04b4&Pid_8613&Rev_:001
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\Vid_04b4&Pid_8613


[ORION.NTamd64]
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0011
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0012

______________________________________________

You have to do it for both the base and the IO

#23 bluedandelion

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

Apparently QHY5 users have also had this problem. See the following thread:
http://www.cloudynig...5639480/page...

#24 guyroch

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

This is what get from Windows when the SSAG is initially connected

Device USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1 was configured.


So I edited the ssag.inf with the the following and still no luck.

[ORION.NTx86]
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0011
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0012

[ORION.NTamd64]
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1

#25 zerro1

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

Did you get the PID/VID from device manager or from the error message? also; I didn't replace anything in the INF file, I just added to the list.

"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1

I would try leaving the characters that I highlighted in red out of the file. I suspect that it "may" be something windows is throwing in there. If you notice in all other instances, the instruction ends with the PID number and there is no "\" beyond it.

mine had the &Rev_:001 on the base instruction but it was not \ and it was a little different situation.

worth a try?
If all else fails...
You could try contacting Orion to see if they have a Win8 driver update in the pipeline.

My SSAG pretty much is just a backup if one of my Meade DSI's fails on me. They are more sensitive and can be had for around $100 to $120 on the used market. Course they don't have a guide port. and they may not work on Win8 either.






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