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Canon 1000D/Rebel XS vs 1100D/Rebel T3

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#1 Masvingo

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:29 PM

I'm looking to try my hand at astrophotography, both planetary / lunar and DSO using my 8" SCT. As money is tight, I've ruled out a CCD camera and as I want to try both planetary and DSO I'm leaning towards a DSLR. From what I've read, Canon is the way to go, in part because of the software available and I'm considering either a 1000D/Rebel XS or a 1100D/Rebel T3 and looking for some advice on which one to get.

The pros of the 1000D/Rebel XS appear to be
  • mirror lockup - but if I'm using the live view feed to a laptop to take planetary shots I guess lack of lock up on the 1100D/Rebel T3 ain't a problem
  • older so cheaper - but the prices on Evil Bay in the UK aren't that different to some of the deals available at the photo shops for the 1100D/Rebel T3

whereas for the 1100D/Rebel T3 the pros appear to be
  • lower noise - according to a review by Gary Honis the 1100D/Rebel T3 has a low dark frame noise level similar to that of the 450D and 550D and lower than the 1000D/Rebel XS
  • available new - so no wear and tear on the shutter mechanism - what is the average life of the shutter mechanism?
  • has a video mode - but if the live view feed can be used for planetary imaging in the 1000D/Rebel XS does this matter?

Are there any other considerations I should be taking into account?

What are your thoughts as to which would be the better camera for the job?

James

#2 Dan Watt

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:39 PM

I have the T3 and I'm very happy with it. Keep in mind that the T3 is 14 bit while the XS is 12 bit.

Mirror lockup seems to be a non-issue in my experience with it. The shutter mechanism seems to be softer than my other DSLRs I have had in the past. I wouldn't bother worrying about it. The T3 also has smaller pixels which would be better for planetary work.

I think you'll be happy with either one though, pretty much any Canon from the 450D onward is excellent.

#3 Hal9000

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

My lovely wife has just bought me an 1100D for Christmas. :D I'm looking to attach it to my 8" (f/6) newt (with Moonlite CR1). I'm currently using 1.25" eyepieces. what adapters etc would you all recommend?
Cheers, Al.

#4 FrankenCub

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:05 AM

I have been looking at buying a used Canon to experiment in AP too. I was at first considering an 1100D even though its an entry level camera but did see it has very good reviews here. I am quite hesitant of eBay though, I'd hate to get it and find out its messed up :-/
I have found one locally here with two lenses for $350, but then found a new in box t1i for $400. My big issue is it has to serve dual purpose, otherwise I could just buy a body and invest the rest in the other parts of my scope or whatever. Think I'm going with that one if its still available ...crossing fingers lol

#5 mmalik

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:18 AM

...what adapters etc would you all recommend?


If your focuser allows 2", here... is one adapter example. Thx

#6 andysea

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:36 AM

I have a canon XS that I modified for AP and I'm very happy with it. Here is a recent image.
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/
I bought the camera "as is" on ebay for $90. It was sold "as is" because it could not meter correctly. I hyper modded it and added TE cooling.
What's interesting is that my XS is much cleaner then my modded T2i which is riddled with pattern noise.
Andy

#7 Masvingo

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:02 PM

Thanks Dan, it's good to hear that the lack of mirror lock-up shouldn't be an issue with the T3. I think I will probably go for the T3 although, as you say, either one should be fine for my needs.

James

#8 Masvingo

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:14 PM

Hi FrankenCub, yes, I'm a bit wary of buying over the 'bay which was one of the advantages of the 1100D over the 1000D to me as I can get the 1100D in Jessops (a nationwide chain here) for not too much more than the earlier model goes on the 'bay.

I'm also looking to get a lens as well rather than just a body so it can also be used, if necessary, for ordinary pictures - no plans to mod it at this stage.

James

#9 Masvingo

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:22 PM

Hi Andy, that's a lovely shot. That's a surprise to hear that the modded XS is better than the T2i for noise. At present I've no plans to mod my camera until I've worked out what I can do with the standard version and got up to speed with the imaging process but the possibility has been filed in my mind for future reference!

James

#10 andysea

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:36 PM

Thank you James.
Well I am not sure that teh XS is actually lower noise. It's hard for me to compare as my xs has been heavily modified with cooling. However the pattern noise seems to be more of an issue with the T2i. I have seen other T2i's/T3i's with zero pattern noise. My guess is that it varies from sensor to sensor. Unfortunately pattern noise is the worst kind of noise and AFIK the only way to mitigate it is by dithering between subs.

I think you will quickly find out that you nee to mod your canon to get the most out of it for AP. I chose the clear mod for both my cameras but there are are plenty of posts about this topic so I will leave it up to you to research it.

Andy

#11 andysea

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:39 PM

One more thing. For planetary work you will need a camera capable to taking videos which pretty much rules out the XS. You might also want to look into registax. It seems to be standard processing software for people who do planetary work.

#12 FrankenCub

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:06 PM

Hi FrankenCub, yes, I'm a bit wary of buying over the 'bay which was one of the advantages of the 1100D over the 1000D to me as I can get the 1100D in Jessops (a nationwide chain here) for not too much more than the earlier model goes on the 'bay.

I'm also looking to get a lens as well rather than just a body so it can also be used, if necessary, for ordinary pictures - no plans to mod it at this stage.

James


I have been watching eBay pretty closely the past 4 days or so to get ideas on going prices for used cameras, anywheres from 40D's to the t3i's....mostly out of shear boredom as we've had snow storm after snow storm. I've been surprised that the local prices I've found on Craigs List (kinda like an electronic flea-market I guess) to be much better anyhow. And as a plus I can test them out before I plunk any cash down. I still look at that 1100D every day because it does come with an extra lens lol. The lady listing it is being less than honest about the listing though so I don't look very long, she says it's sold in stores for $750 when I've seen it for $499. I'm seriously thinking about modding one this summer seems it won't have any warentee from Canon. It's pretty straight forward and can be used daytime with a custom WB setting. I've had my Sony apart a few time to fix the shutter button that kept wearing out so any anxieties of messing up the camera have already been worked through lol

#13 andysea

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

Hi FrankenCub
I have modded a few canons. You're correct, it's not very difficult. I can't speak for the newer models tho. I believe from the T2i on Canon has introduced a different mounting system for the sensor that makes squaring the sensor with the body a little trickier when reassembling. You should do some research prior to attempting the mod.
One thing to keep in mind is that if you do the clear mod the autofocus will no longer work. With the newer bodies tho the sensor position can be adjusted so that the autofocus will actually still work. My T2i was clear modded by Brent Oliver and he also readjusted the sensor position so that the camera can be used for daytime IR photos.
If you use the replacement Baader filter the camera will work just fine and you will be able to use it for daytime photography with a OWB filter or a custom WB. Another thing to keep in mind is that if you use Astronomik EOS clip filters you won't be able to use EF-S lenses.

#14 RedLionNJ

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:56 PM

One more thing. For planetary work you will need a camera capable to taking videos which pretty much rules out the XS. You might also want to look into registax. It seems to be standard processing software for people who do planetary work.


Unless I'm mistaken, this statement is incorrect. All that's required to capture video for planetary stacking is any Canon with liveview (which includes the 1000D) and BackyardEOS.

The resulting AVI (or JPGs) can then be stacked in AS!2 or AviStack2 before being gently sharpened in Registax.

Grant

#15 andysea

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:19 PM

Oh ok I didn't know that.
Is live view a hd video?

#16 FrankenCub

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

Hi FrankenCub
I have modded a few canons. You're correct, it's not very difficult. I can't speak for the newer models tho. I believe from the T2i on Canon has introduced a different mounting system for the sensor that makes squaring the sensor with the body a little trickier when reassembling. You should do some research prior to attempting the mod.
One thing to keep in mind is that if you do the clear mod the autofocus will no longer work. With the newer bodies tho the sensor position can be adjusted so that the autofocus will actually still work. My T2i was clear modded by Brent Oliver and he also readjusted the sensor position so that the camera can be used for daytime IR photos.
If you use the replacement Baader filter the camera will work just fine and you will be able to use it for daytime photography with a OWB filter or a custom WB. Another thing to keep in mind is that if you use Astronomik EOS clip filters you won't be able to use EF-S lenses.


I was a nervous wreck when I tore apart my Sony to fix it lol. Once I did it a couple times, it's no big deal. I read the tutorial real quick on the newer cameras (t1i-t2i) but sure I missed some stuff. I would spend proper time reading it once I go to do it. Wasting time while the :snowedin: From what I gathered, if you left the back lens out (LPF#2) the AF would not work at all, but if replaced with clear glass it would be close, if replaced with the Baader it would work as should, but I could have read that wrong :shrug:
I figured for my use, it would be best to go with the Baader mod and custom WB so I can retain the EF-S lens, I really can't afford to be buying more lenses for a camera ATM. Although I certainly wish I could, I'd never be home :whee:

#17 FrankenCub

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

Oh ok I didn't know that.
Is live view a hd video?


I believe Live View I just your PC seeing what your camera is seeing. You don't want to be concerned with HD video anyhow from what I've read. When doing planitary AP with video it's using video crop or 1:1. Video crop will only be on certain models like the t2i and 60D I think, I don't remember which ones all have the 1:1 but I can find the link ...

#18 FrankenCub

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:45 AM

I can't find that link on the 1:1 info but I'm sure someone will come along who will have it rignt on top of their head and be able to straighten it all out. I don't think it matters anyhow as we can feed images right to the pc via live view, we don't need video feed.

#19 andysea

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:29 AM

That's great to know Iif I ever want to try planetary imaging:)
Given the horrible weather that we've had lately maybe that's what I should do!! Lol

#20 FrankenCub

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:34 AM

Well guess what, I just couldn't leave well enough along and continued lookin :p
Found it, good info too... 1:1 Info for Planitary AP Lately there has been so much cloud cover I couldn't see the full moon unfortunately. Has been some occasions for some pretty creepy photos though with the odd clouds passing by though, gotta hurry up and get that camera so I can at least get some photos of something...good or bad o.O !@#$%

#21 Masvingo

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:01 AM

Thanks for the link to Jerry's post about 1:1 info for planetary shots. I had read that the lack of a video mode on the 1000D/XS wasn't a problem for planetary work as the live view stream could be used instead.

Jerry's Jupiter shot captured from a 5x live view feed is excellent and if any of my shots are even half as good I'll be satisfied. I suspect poor seeing and operator error will be a bigger problem for me than the camera!

James

#22 andysea

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:58 AM

Thanks for the link! Looks very interesting, perhaps I will attempt planetary work:) definitely less time consuming than l
rgb DSO imaging!

#23 bouffetout

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

I have the T3 and I'm very happy with it. Keep in mind that the T3 is 14 bit while the XS is 12 bit.

Mirror lockup seems to be a non-issue in my experience with it. The shutter mechanism seems to be softer than my other DSLRs I have had in the past. I wouldn't bother worrying about it. The T3 also has smaller pixels which would be better for planetary work.

I think you'll be happy with either one though, pretty much any Canon from the 450D onward is excellent.

Sorry to interrupt but when you say the T3 in 14 bits ,do you mean megapixel ?? I yes ,the T3 is in fact 12.2 megapixel ,not 14. At least that's what my T3 (1100D ) is !

#24 Masvingo

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

No, I think the reference to bits is the bit depth, that is the number of bits that are used to record the information from each pixel in the sensor. As the T3 uses 14 bits per pixel rather than 12 bits for the XS it can record more information about the light received by each pixel. As a simple analogy, a colour picture will be displayed more realistically on a computer monitor which can display each pixel in the picture as one of, say, 65,536 different colours compared to one that could only display each pixel using only 256 different colours. However, with reference to cameras the extra information is used, not to record more colours, but rather to record each colour with a much finer tonal graduation giving the image is greater colour depth.

James

ps Whilst there would be no apparent difference in appearance between an unprocessed 12 bit image and a 14 bit, when you start enhancing the image by expanding the tonal range, having a higher bit depth helps by allowing for a smoother variation and reduces the potential for visible posterisation in the image.

#25 andysea

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:34 PM

Yep that's correct! Dynamic range is also a function of the ISO (gain) that you choose. Most cameras I believe have the sweet spot between 800 and 1600 ISO.






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