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Push-processing Woes

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#1 tuc

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

Has this happened to you? I've noticed that on every roll of push-processed 120 film there is at least one frame with pushing errors. The photo below (Kodak E200 pushed 2 stops) looks like it wasn't dipped and or dunked uniformly. Also from the same roll, these two frames have vertical streaking that DBE fixed a bit, but are still noticeable.Is this just lab carelessness?
STREAK1
STREAK2

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#2 Nightfly

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

Looks like poor handling to me. I've not had this problem from my lab.

#3 Hikari

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:40 PM

Does the streak go between the frames or does it stop with the frame?

#4 tuc

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

Hikari, yes, the streak goes between the frames.

#5 Hikari

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:23 AM

If the streak is between frames it narrows it down to processing or a light leak. It does not look like a light leak, at least not in the camera. If your processor uses a dip and drunk machine, it is not a light leak from that, but I have never seen a processing mark from a dip and drunk machine like that either. Unfortunately, I do not think the processor will take responsibility.

If you are shooting a C330, then the mark goes across the roll? Do you tighten your rolls by pulling on the paper or pinch your rolls when you take them out of the camera? That might cause a leak across the roll. The interesting thing is that you says it happens on each roll. Usually with processing, something might go wrong with replenishment, but that is a batch problem and should not be noticed each time you take a roll in. Have you asked your processor what it might be?

You have obviously scanned the film. How different do the images you posted and the actual film appear? Could you post what the scan looks like without any processing?

Sorry, it is a bit of a mystery. I can't quite understand it as a processing error.

#6 tuc

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

Hikari, Thanks for the reply. This is the scan "as is' without levels/curves adjusted.

When I don't push-process either 35mm or 120 film, I have no problems whatsoever, so that cancels out a camera light leak. It's possible that I'm rolling up the 120 film too tight when I remove it from the camera, but that doesn't explain why I'm getting streaks on 35mm rolls too.

The real mystery, and a good argument for why it might not be a processing error, is that this has happened with 4 different labs.

Next week I will email this photo to the lab and I'll let you know what they have to say.

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#7 Hikari

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

Do you use expired film? And how long has it been expired? And does it only happen on expired film?

Push processing is basically underexposure and overdevelopment. Over development will increase contrast. Perhaps this film does not push well, but the unevenness does not follow that.

The fact that you are getting this on 35mm film would also suggest it is not a light leak. The fact that your four labs seem to be "consistent" is also a mystery--if it were a processing error, you would think one of them would get it right.

It would be nice to isolate a cause.

#8 tuc

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

The streak marks do not discriminate, they occur on expired film and fresh film; pushed one stop or two stops; previously frozen film or film that has never been frozen; and film that has been processed immediately or film that has sat in the camera for a few months.

Of course, I could fix this problem by never push-processing another roll of film. I should send the next roll to Nightfly's lab. Maybe Canadians don't know how to process film. lol.

I don't think Igor has ever had a problem with the Canadian lab he uses, so maybe I'll try that one next.

#9 Achernar

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

If the exact same problem is cropping up with four different labs, I suspect it's not something going wrong when the film is being processed, unless they are all using the exact same method, chemicals, and technique. I used to develop my own color and black and white film in stainless steel reels, open tanks and even open trays. I have seen steaks on the film caused by overagitiation, damage due to heat, old film or bad chemicals, but nothing like this. The streaking you are getting could also be due to something being wrong with the film itself. Have you been hypering it with hydrogen or forming gas? Fogging can sometimes arise from that, the film could have been damaged also in some way from heat, x-rays or other factors beyond your control or the lab's. Are all your photos from the same batch of film? If you can, try shooting a test roll with a few daytime photos, the rest of the night sky, and try push processing it in an developing tank on a stainless steel reel. If the streak still persists, with a different method of processing it and different chemicals, I would say there is a problem in the film itself. Radiation damage is a real problem, high levels of radiation are used to inspect things now to look for contraband, but repeated exposure will also damage film that results in weird effects too.

Taras

#10 tuc

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:42 PM

Thank you for your ideas and suggestions, Achernar. I have not been hypering the film, nor has the film always been from the same batch.

#11 Nebhunter

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

Hey - Tuc & Roll - how are you? Just a wild idea, but the frames with streaks - some have it on the same roll - some don't - are the streaked frames shot from the same place ie: or general area? Are the non streaked from different areas like the country etc? Wondering if there are high tension wires or underground power lines in the area. Something like that? Like I said - a wild idea.

igor

#12 tuc

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:47 PM

Hi Igor, I like that idea actually, but the streaked and non-streaked frames are from the
same locations. But it got me thinking about static charge. I will find out this week --
someone has to have seen this before.

#13 tuc

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:34 PM

I heard back from the lab today, and they suspect that it's staining from a bursting problem and are checking the levels. They are also running some tests to try to duplicate the problem.


#14 Achernar

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

If you were getting static electrcity in the camera, you will see rows of light spots, or even what looks like lightning bolts in the photos. This is not some ESD problem in your camera. I saw what happened to a fellow student's film when he rewound it rapidly in the cold Missouri winter air. He was sorry he did when he developed the film, it was utterly ruined by static electricity marking it up.

Taras

#15 Nebhunter

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:28 AM

Hope that solves the problem.

igor

#16 Nebhunter

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:29 AM

I was grasping at straws. But a good idea on winding the film slowly regardless of where and when. Especially in very dry climates as well.






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