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Finder for Orion Giant 25x100

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#1 BobinKy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

What finder do some of you recommend for the Orion Giant 25x100 binoculars? And what are some suggestions for attaching the finder to the binoculars?

Thank you.

#2 Rich V.

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

I use the Universal Astronomics Bino Rail Bracket with a RDF with my 22x70s . A bit pricey but it works great...

Rich

#3 daniel_h

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

Do you want optical, red dot. Laser?

#4 BobinKy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:42 PM

Do you want optical, red dot. Laser?


Very good question.

Finder options

I have used the multiple reflex, Telrad, and illuminated finder scope (optical) on my scopes. Among those options, I find the combination of Telrad and illuminated finder scope (both finders on a single scope) to be the most effective. I go about my search in this order: (A) Looking for the target object with the Telrad, (B) switching to the illuminated finder scope with cross hairs to zero in on the target, and finally © going to the eyepiece for focusing and observing.

Mounting the finder on a heavy binocular with a rail probably reduces the option down to a single device with a single-head tripod setup. Therefore I will go with a single finder device on my 25x100 that mounts directly to the rail.

Of these, my guess is the Telrad would be the easiest to use when searching for an object.

The drawback with the Telrad, as I understand, will be the added weight and cumbersome design. Depending upon the tripod and head under the 25x100, adding as much as 12 or 16 ounces will be more than some tripod/head setups can safely support.

I have not tried a Rigel Quikfinder, which may be 1/10th the weight and size of the Telrad (according to the Rigel advertising copy). This is certainly an option.

My guess is that most 25x100 bino observers use a red dot finder because of its simplicity, light weight, and convenient size. At least that is what is usually shown in the magazine and forum photos for giant binoculars with a rail. And this is what Rich describes in his post above. I just have to remember that when we pick up the option of two eyes and ease of binoculars, we also lose valuable real estate to affix a bunch of niceties--something a scope, particularly a Dob scope, has in abundance.

Finder Support Options

At this stage of the research, I am in favor of the Universal Astronomics Rail Bracket that Rich uses, over the BinoBrac IV. Again for reasons of simplicity, lightweight, ease of removal, and limited space around the rail in the Orion Mini Giant 25x100.

I have thought about contacting both Universal Astronomics and Astronomy-Shoppe to inquire about preparing a custom rail clip of their respective support base options, with a flat plate option to accommodate the Telrad.

Well, today I did make the call to Astronomy-Shoppe (BinoBrac) to discuss what they could put together for a Telrad on a 25x100 binocular. The fine folks at Astronomy-Shoppe said they could assemble a custom Binobrac IV Universal with a flat plate for the Telrad, similar to what they sell for use with the SkyScout. The additional cost for the custom setup would be $25 above the cost of the Binobrac IV Universal.

My guess is Larry at Universal Astronomics could do something similar for his rail bracket support system. I hope to call him in the next few days.

*****

What really interests me, however, are what finders and support options that others have acquired or made for their 25x100s. Sometimes I go overboard in writing about myself and my stuff that I fail to continue to learn from others on this forum. Thus, I will now close my mouth--errr, my fingers on the keyboard--and hope to learn from others, particularly about the pros and cons of their setups, which this forum is all about.

Please feel free to post any comments, suggestions, or criticisms.

Thank you.

#5 daniel_h

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:59 AM

Optical is my least fav of the three, too hard to look thru for me

Laser is good, but I find it more useful to actually use as a pointer to show others what I/they are looking at

Rdf is my preferred option but then again I took it off also & prefer to use the 25x100 naked , I find I just don't need a finder, though I have dk skies (+5 ) so there are plenty of star hopping markers if I am looking for something. Under heavy light pollution then I think the optical might come into its own-but finding the right mounting for it will be difficult

#6 Rich V.

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:47 AM

I find a RDF or MRF to be all that's needed with big binos. Even a 25x100 has a 2.5° FOV; plenty wide to get into the ballpark with the RDF. GLPs work great as well. I can't imagine trying to fit an optical finder on a bino, much less use one comfortably.

The UA rail clamp has two stepped dovetail widths; it accepts both types of red dot finders.

Rich

#7 EricP

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

I used to have RDF's mounted on my higher powered bins, but switched to GLP's from Garrett Optical. Makes it easier to point with and, since you can see the LASER beams in the fields of view (they converge like railroad tracks to a point), the GLP is easier to zero in to the center of the field (your target) during adjustment. I don't know if Garrett sells them anymore.

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#8 edwincjones

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:46 AM

I use the Rigel on my 100 and 150mm binoculars-works well,
the Telrad would probably work better unless size/weight a problem
I find the red dots harder to use

edj

#9 BobinKy

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

I want to thank everyone who posted recommendations for a finder setup on the Orion Giant 25x100. I called Larry at Universal Astronomics and he was quite helpful. As many have said, the keep it simple (KIS) approach is frequently the best option. I have a tendency to over-complicate matters. On the telephone, Larry was very patient with me explaining the advantages of the red dot finder for giant binoculars with a rail between the objective tubes. Thus, I placed an order with Larry for his Universal Astronomics Bino Rail Bracket and a Stellarvue Red Dot Finder. This should be a simple setup that is light in weight and easy to remove. Maybe later, I will take a second look at the other options discussed in this thread.

*****

N O T E S

Note 1: I could have placed an order for the identical same rail bracket with Garrett Optical. However, Larry makes the rail bracket and I was able to save a few bucks. Furthermore, Garret Optical has discontinued telephone-based customer service and product support, and replaced his excellent telephone support of years past with an email-based system. I did send a question through Garret's system and received a reply on the same day. However, when I research and buy optics I find one question leads to another and another. Telephone-based customer support just makes it easier and faster. (I think I will start a thread about the benefits of telephone support for online vendors).

Note 2: Regarding the green laser finder option, I see the benefit of it. However, I observe with grandchildren and live in a neighborhood where children play from yard to yard, and motorists drive our streets and we get air traffic overhead from two local airports. The U.S. Federal Drug Administration (FDA) issued a report: Illuminating the Hazards of Powerful Laser Products (2009), which I read online. The Mayo Clinic also issued a warning: Green Laser Pointer Can Cause Eye Damage (2005). If I began to use a green laser pointer, and even kept it under lock and key, probably nothing would render permanent harm to the young eyes of my loved ones or the eyes of those driving or flying near my house. I have good eyes (most of us do in this hobby) and I hope my grandchildren can go through life with good eyes. And like most young children, they are in to everything when they come over. I do not want to do anything to risk their chances of enjoying the jewels in the night sky or the colors and shapes of day time nature and landscapes. Thus, I have decided to stay away from green laser pointers for the safety of others.

#10 Smithfr2000

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

And what about some ATM/DIY stuff ?

My system with a red dot finder :
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#11 EricP

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

Bob,

Looks like you made a good choice. My situation is more "laser friendly" than yours. In my case, I switched to the GLP when I started using my bino-chair. With the RDF, I had to move my head too far above the eyepieces to get a bead with the RDF and by the time I got my eyes back into poistion, the binoculars had moved. Really frustrating! With the GLP, all I have to do is look over the top of the bins without moving my head.

#12 Rich V.

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:33 PM

Seated viewing demands the finder be as close to the eyepiece sight line as possible.

A low profile setup like Smith shows above is ideal. I roll the taller UA adapter over to one side against the bino barrel to make an easy sight line when viewing from my recliner with a p-gram. Eric's anecdote with a bino-chair demonstrates the need as well.

This is where, when possible, the GLP shines as a finder because you're not forced to align yourself with a finder at all. ;)

Rich

#13 BobinKy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

Rahul's Comet Hunting Blog (Bhuj, India) shows an optical finder attached to the objective end of his 25x100s.

#14 rookie

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:19 PM

Have you come to any conclusions about a finder, Bob?

The last post with the finder attached to the objective high and off to the left might not be my first choice but he's very innovative.

#15 BobinKy

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:48 AM

Have you come to any conclusions about a finder, Bob?


Yes, I ordered the Universal Astronomics Bino Rail Bracket and a Stellarvue Red Dot Finder.

However, the optical finder on the end of the objective does offer an advantage in light polluted skies--which my backyard is rapidly becoming! :bawling:

#16 EdZ

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

I use an RDF on every one of my telescopes. Sorry, I don't use finders on binoculars, just don't find that I need it. Did a few times in the past, but discontinued. Had a UA rail bracket but sold it. I could still mount a finder any time I use my FarSight binocular mount bracket. It's sized on top for two different RDF widths, similar to the UA bracket. I have several Stellervue RDFs.

I'd recommend turning it on then off again EVERY TIME you look thru it. Leaving it on for a session often results in putting it away still turned on and burning expensive batteries. Keep extra batteries around.

#17 Wes James

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

Eric- the green laser pointer you pictured is made by Barska- and if anyone google's "GL X Laser sight" they will be able to find it. Add Green to isolate. These are used for gunsights. I have a regular green laser pointer pen I set up on my 70mM Garrett R/A bino's- love it.

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#18 EricP

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:16 PM

Thanks, Wes. I remember them being described as a gun sight on the Garrett site when I bought them. Nice looking bins, by the way! :grin:

#19 aa6ww

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:57 PM

After using my 25x100 Oberwerks last night, I also deceided I needed some type of pointing devise to point my binoculars.
Since I already had a Red Dot Finder, I came up with a simple bracket that mounts to my big binos beautifully with almost no effort.
I used a 5" long piece of aluminum. 3/4" wide and 1/8" thick with a 1/4" hole in one in end. That's it. Its very effective and clamps down easier and comes off easily. I used two small strips of electrical take you can see on the bottom of the bracket so there's enough pressure to keep the bracket from moving. Its very effective and very simple, and keeps the RDF very low in the mount. Here are a few photos:

....Ralph

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#20 aa6ww

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

After using my 25x100 Oberwerks last night, I also deceided I needed some type of pointing devise to point my binoculars.
Since I already had a Red Dot Finder, I came up with a simple bracket that mounts to my big binos beautifully with almost no effort.
I used a 5" long piece of aluminum. 3/4" wide and 1/8" thick with a 1/4" hole in one in end. That's it. Its very effective and clamps down easier and comes off easily. I used two small strips of electrical take you can see on the bottom of the bracket so there's enough pressure to keep the bracket from moving. Its very effective and very simple, and keeps the RDF very low in the mount. Here are a few photos:

....Ralph

here's another one!

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#21 aa6ww

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

After using my 25x100 Oberwerks last night, I also deceided I needed some type of pointing devise to point my binoculars.
Since I already had a Red Dot Finder, I came up with a simple bracket that mounts to my big binos beautifully with almost no effort.
I used a 5" long piece of aluminum. 3/4" wide and 1/8" thick with a 1/4" hole in one in end. That's it. Its very effective and clamps down easier and comes off easily. I used two small strips of electrical take you can see on the bottom of the bracket so there's enough pressure to keep the bracket from moving. Its very effective and very simple, and keeps the RDF very low in the mount. Here are a few photos:

....Ralph

Attached Files



#22 EricP

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:33 PM

Ralph,

Very ingenious design for a low-profile mount! :bow:

#23 aa6ww

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:39 AM

Ralph,

Very ingenious design for a low-profile mount! :bow:


Hi Eric, thanks. I saw some of the other ideas and thought there's gotta be some simpler inexpensive way. A two foot length of that aluminum online cost about $4 or $5 dollars, shipping included:

http://www.metalsdep...t_view.php?msg=

and its so thin, its easily cut with a hack saw and can be polished up with a file or even sand paper, even without any machined tools. Really, after that, all you would need would be a 1/4" hole in one end. Realistically, one could make 4 or 5 of them for that cost, so about a dollar each. I just found that piece of metal in the scrap bin at work sometime ago, and had it in my desk for maybe 6 months.
After seeing that $50 dollar bracket for a red dot finder, I thought, no way! And no tools required to mount it, and very stable!!

pretty cool huh?

...Ralph

#24 Jarrod

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

Very nice Ralph!

My 25x100 accessory mounting solution is a bit different. It's a lighting product that clamps to the central bar and offers both 1/4"-20 and 3/8"-16 threaded holes that accept a variety of tripod-mountable accessories. I currently use a mini-ball mount to mate my Orion smartphone holder to the clamp but you could put just about anything on it. The clamp fastens securely and comes off in about 10 seconds. The clamp is $18-$19 at B&H, but I found the same design on Ebay for under $10.

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#25 aa6ww

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:26 AM

Looks good Jarrod,

Having an extra mounting hole on tops gives you lots of options.

...Ralph






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