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Beautiful Sandcast C8 Leo Henzl? help

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#1 orion61

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:41 PM

I just wanted to share a picture of the best C8 I have ever looked through, (I have owned/Bought/Sold/Traded, for about 40 of them, this thing is aone of beauty,
The Story goes this belonged to Former Celestron VP Leo Henzl and he used it in sales demos in Chicago.
Supposedly the best of the optic sets was picked and sent back for further refinement.
I dont know what you can believe but it is from the correct time frame, I pulled the mirror and there are hand written notes on the back other than the normal SN and alignment mark.
It says "special order sales" in marker??
It is without a scratch or scuff in the tube.
Can anyone give any more proof for or against?
It does not have the origonal Metal dust cover and I'm trying to find one, but I had an extra Plastic one.
I have an ad wanting one in the Class section but so far
no luck.

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#2 bob midiri

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:44 PM

Wow that is awesome!! Where did you find such a beauty!! bob

#3 orion61

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

I took it in on a trade of all things,
I still think the price these are going for is a travesty.
I couldn't pass it up when I heard the history.
My problem is I have noo way to know if it is true or not?
I'd love to find someone that worked on the line who could
affirm or deny the way Execs got their private scopes.
I had heard Leo did give public presentations with his scopes when he worked at Celestron in the early 70's

#4 Geo.

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:15 PM

Very nice. Any idea of the vintage? The Cinch-Jones plug is certainly pre-1977 and the paint post what, '72-73? Does it have the brass plated motor covers?

#5 orion61

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:51 PM

No to the Brass Motor covers, but the seller said the motors had been replaced. I relubesd everything because it was kind of gummy, but it is so silky smooth, much more so than my other C8's, They were certainly fit and finished better, but the optics are what are blowing me away!
Does anybody know if there is a motor company that makes a DC 1 rpH gear reduction motor. It would be great to convert
one to D/C! it actually would be simple to do.
I wouldn't touch this one but I have another fork drive.
What year did they switch from the Brown/Grey color scheme
to the grey?
and anybody know what years Leo worked there?
I don't want to present this as his (altho the pieces are fitting into place)
I have also never seen hand written notes before on the back of a C8 mirror before like this denoting a special order.

#6 greedyshark

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

Nice. I once owned a sandcast C8. Like yours, its optics were phenomenal. On two rare occasions I observed Encke's. Nearly 40 years and dozens of scopes in this hobby...selling that C8 was a mistake.

Charles

#7 tim53

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:48 PM

I think the sand cast forkers are the most beautiful of the models Celestron ever made.

I have a 1975 C-8 in nearly mint condition that also has the best optics of the SCTs I've owned. I like it better than Tinky's optics, though that scope still could use some optimizing, when I can get the time.

-Tim.

#8 Geo.

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

Pretty sure the brass plated motors had a different gear reduction. Problem with DC motors is their speed is dependent on the current provided, so you need some kind of control system to give any kind of constant speed over the life of the battery. Control can be as simple as voltage reference and a capacitor/resistor circuit to create a time constant. Meade used circuits like this on the original ETX-90 RA and the LX10. Neither provided greater accuracy than Celestron's sychronous motors.

Better systems use open loop control circuits applying stepper motors and microprocessor control as in Meade LX-5, Celestar Dlx & PowerStar or closed loop control with servomotors and microprocessors as in Meade LX50, DS, ETX, Celestar and Ultima. Adding more powerful microprocessors and you get goto.

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#9 orion61

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:49 PM

I am able to UPDATE the post about the Leo Henzl C8.
(He was the VP of Sales for Celestron for a time in the 70's) A very nice fellow from what I have heard.
I received a 3 PM's correpondence from sirusthepup.
#1
Hi,

I just noticed the scope in your sig.

That orange tube C8 passed through my hands 20+ years ago.

SUPERB is the right description. I remember viewing Mars with that scope at 400x when Mars was 5 or 6 arcsec. A beautiful crisp little thing with nice surface detail.

A very special scope for sure! Enjoy it.

regards,
Ed in central Texas

PM #2
I bought it from my friend Bob Lindsey. He lives about 20 miles away here in central Texas. He lives in Mcqueeny, TX. I live in Staples, TX near San Marcos Texas. I don't remember the year that I owned it, but I will ask Bobbie what he remembers about it. I'm thinking that it may have been sourced from the Starry Messenger ads. I will ask him and report back to you.
After looking back I thought I had either bought it from a Friend Of mine in Sioux City or from Gary Hand.. after close to 20 years the mind gets kind of Fuzzy....

PM#3
Ahhh - now I see the path! John Coda was a frequent trading partner with Bob Lindsey. Most likely that is where the scope went after it left central Texas. Or possibly Gary Hand, another frequent trading partner with Bobby.
I'm glad that the path to me is clearing up. As anyone that has ever looked through it can attest it is a very very special tube. I was careful when cleaning the Out-gassing film from the inside I did not degrade the writing on the back side of the mirror that denoted it was a special sales order with a reference to Leo Henzl in marker.
I hope I never need money bad enough to sell her

#10 Masvingo

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:02 PM

Wow! what a great trade-in to get. And lovely to get some more history about the 'scope.

James

#11 orion61

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:27 PM

I have compaired it with quite a few C8 and Meade 8 SCT's
It has never been bested.. A few stock C8's have come mighty close especially the ORIGONAL Ultima series, Nearly every newer scope were Brighter. For a long time I have kicked the idea around of sending the mirrors in for Enhansed coatings, I just cant bring myself to do it..
Fear of something happening to the optics.
I'd sure love to find an origonal Dust cover (metal one)
mine dissapeared during a Star Party. I found a Plastic one which is a Celestron but it will not swing through the
forks. It still angers me someone would take mine, but the plastic ones have the habit of falling off due to the fact
the metal of the tube expands and contracts at a different rate.
I guess it isn't a huge deal, with the JMI Computer it will not swing through anyway, because of the RA encoder.
I have had perfect luck with that MiniMax since I bought it new in the 80's! it is a lot more accurate than most would have thought. Especially since the JMI DSS of the day only used 2k and 4k tick encoders.
The 5k of DSO's is plenty, and they are always in the FOV.
It is also nice with it being push-to, no noise at 3:00 AM.
The tube is actually cleaner than in the pic, the spots were from lube on my hand I didn't get cleaned off.
As you can tell I have pampered it.

#12 amicus sidera

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:17 AM

I'm sure that the optics are superb in that scope, and am glad to hear that it has found a good home with someone who will give it the use and care it deserves.

At the same time, I'm a bit bothered by the fact that Celestron chose a "perfect" scope, rather than an average sample, for demonstration purposes. While fully understanding why they would do such a thing (I wasn't born yesterday), I find it distasteful and wrong... those prospective customers, whether dealers or individual amateurs, who viewed through it would entertain expectations that would almost certainly never be met by a normal production model.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just another reason, along with their repulsive advertisements from long ago featuring underfed young women, to avoid owning any Celestron telescope.

#13 tim53

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:47 AM

I seem to recall that Leo Henzl was given a loaner, prototype Meade 2080 to take astrophotos with while I was still there in 1979. And I remember his comment when he returned the scope afterwards (relayed by Ron Ezra iirc): "yeah, I was able to, but it was a pita!"

Tim

#14 sqrlman

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:52 PM

Here is an ad from the June 1992 Starry Messenger. It was being sold by a man in New York. He ran the ad for about 4 months before it sold.

Steve

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#15 bob midiri

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:18 PM

wonder who got the C14!!

#16 Joe Cepleur

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:46 PM

As far as I'm concerned, this is just another reason, along with their repulsive advertisements from long ago featuring underfed young women, to avoid owning any Celestron telescope.



While it's true that an average scope would be a fairer example, it's hard to fault an insider from taking advantage of the opportunity to have his personal scope custom perfected. Who wouldn't want the perfect C8? In any case, whatever scoudrely hooliganism brought the scope into being, Larry's discussing a C8 that is about as perfect as perfect can be. Why not be fascinated? Better watch out, Larry; I'm gonna be peddling my bike to Iowa and knocking your door, just to observe through Leo's C8!

I am glad that the world has matured past the time when airline stewardesses were chosen solely for their beauty and young women aspired to be the "Celestron girls" that young men were taught to consume, yet that does not change Celestron's magnificent technical accomplishment in creating great portable telescopes. Socially, times have changed, fortunately, yet these exquisite objects endure. Peer through one, and marvel. Shall we stop listening to Wagner, because he was a pig toward Jews, or shall we note that even with his extreme human failings, he had an astonishing and inventive ear for music?

The Orange Tube C8 is a magnificent, groundbreaking creation. No need to conflate an historic telescope that, to this day, excells in everyday use, with the failings of its forty-year-old marketing. Be enraptured in its wonders, and despair of lesser scopes!

#17 bob midiri

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:33 AM

As far as I'm concerned, this is just another reason, along with their repulsive advertisements from long ago featuring underfed young women, to avoid owning any Celestron telescope.




I am glad that the world has matured past the time when airline stewardesses were chosen solely for their beauty and young women aspired to be the "Celestron girls" that young men were taught to consume, yet that does not change Celestron's magnificent technical accomplishment in creating great portable telescopes. Socially, times have changed, fortunately, yet these exquisite objects endure.
!


I dont think the world has changed at all...when was the last time you saw a TV commercial for girls jeans, Makeup, Hair color, or even selling cars that doesn't utilize a beautiful sexy young lady :question:

#18 Ed Holland

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

Surely the only figure we should be discussing here is that of the optics :o

Larry's scope is surely a very interesting piece of history, and I thank him for bringing it to the forum.

Love them or hate them the legion of C8's built over the years have provided many astronomers with a very useable telescope. I love mine :)

#19 greedyshark

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:51 PM

As far as I'm concerned, this is just another reason, along with their repulsive advertisements from long ago featuring underfed young women, to avoid owning any Celestron telescope.




I am glad that the world has matured past the time when airline stewardesses were chosen solely for their beauty and young women aspired to be the "Celestron girls" that young men were taught to consume, yet that does not change Celestron's magnificent technical accomplishment in creating great portable telescopes. Socially, times have changed, fortunately, yet these exquisite objects endure.
!


I dont think the world has changed at all...when was the last time you saw a TV commercial for girls jeans, Makeup, Hair color, or even selling cars that doesn't utilize a beautiful sexy young lady :question:


Agree...Sex sells. True then...true now.

Charles

#20 greedyshark

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:37 PM

...and the "Celestron Girls" were not the first. My personal favorite...

Charles

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#21 tim53

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:41 PM

Don't forget the Cave girls!

-Tim.

#22 DAVIDG

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 01:02 PM

I sure would like to get that C-8 up on my test stand and do a double pass test on the optics. I have tested some very good C-8's. The key to getting the better then average optical figure was to be sure that all the optical surfaces were smooth especially the corrector plate and that the primary was close to a sphere. Then the technian that figured the secondary needed to take the time to get a smooth hyberbolic surface on the secondary that cancelled out the residue errors in the corrector and primary.
The old Starry Messager ad mentions silver coatings. I'm wondering if the ads is correct or if sometime in the past the optics have been recoated ? The coating technology in the late 70's for doing silver wasn't that great because it required an over coating to protect the silver. The standard SiO wouldn't work well. Any minor flaw in the overcoating caused the silver to tranish fairly quickly and even when done right it was difficult to get more then 10 years out of a silver coating and most of the time it was much shorter. Both Meade and Celestron tried tried it back in the 80's with poor results.

- Dave

#23 terraclarke

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 01:35 PM

...and the "Celestron Girls" were not the first. My personal favorite...

Charles


Sex to sell a telescope, yes. Classically tasteful? I would have to say yes as well. Calvin Klein and Abercrombie and Fitch could learn much from this add. In this case, less truly is more.

#24 Ron Luxemburg

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:22 PM

Speaking of sand cast forks, remember this ad ? Note the forks have 6 holes, all later models have 7. I have never seen an early version like this for sale on either site. This ad is from 1972 when the C14 was first introduced as best I can tell and according to Robert P. in his book.

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#25 Ron Luxemburg

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:33 PM

Another of Tom with his C14.

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