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EOS 6D

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#1 Mike Clemens

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

This is a very interesting camera for Astro... the DIGIC 5 noise level seems to be unbelievably low. Does anyone know what the ?1:1 ISO? is for it?

The built in WI-FI goes further towards the dream of a telescope tether carrying only DC-POWER through it, one less USB connection, which means less traffic on any remaining USB connection, and less chance of a USB cable imparting any noise into the camera.

How does Canon handle the WI-FI? Once you establish the WI-FI link between the 6D and the Canon software, does it appear equivalently as a USB connected camera from the point of view of software like Maxim, or BackYardEOS? Does anything support the 6D for shooting?

I haven't had it under the sky yet, but the attached picture of my bench was taken by a wimpy closet light at freakin' ISO 8000 !!!!

Mike

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#2 Mike Clemens

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

dramatically stretched levels on a dark item in the picture
ISO 8000 !!!

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#3 waassaabee

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

Those are very impressive pics!! Are you planning on modding it?

#4 Mike Clemens

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

No I wont mod the 6D... it will be my main camera. It does free up my T2i to be modified though.

Looks like Maxim cant control the 6D now. Probably nothing will work with it at this time eh.

#5 Yoddha

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

Mike,

Canon has to release a new version of their communication library before the third party developers (like me ;)) can implement 6D support in their products...

#6 David Pavlich

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:51 AM

I've switched to OSC, but I'd sure like to get one of these for my terrestrial camera. Looks like a dandy!

David

#7 Mike Clemens

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

So if I want to use it now, I can manually shoot darks, lights, flats no problem, but how would I subtract them before conversion in Canons software?

#8 guyroch

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

No I wont mod the 6D... it will be my main camera. It does free up my T2i to be modified though.

Looks like Maxim cant control the 6D now. Probably nothing will work with it at this time eh.


Yep... sadly.

It usually takes Canon 3 to 6 months to release their SDK after a new camera is released. I have verified last week and it is still not released. As soon as Canon releases it I'm sure developers like myself will rush to recompile our apps with the new SDK to support the 6D.

Guylain

#9 guyroch

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

So if I want to use it now, I can manually shoot darks, lights, flats no problem, but how would I subtract them before conversion in Canons software?


Mike, I'm not sure I understand your question.

You would take your lights and calibration frames just the same. Download all .cr2 from the camera card and use them as you would normally do with your stacking software.

Guylain

#10 Mike Clemens

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

If my stacking software cannot recognize 6D frames I mean. I could certainly take a bunch of light frames and do the color conversion in Canon DPP to TIFF, but is there any way to calibrate them pre-conversion.

Thx
Mike

#11 srosenfraz

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

Hi Mike -

I don't think your stacking software will care what camera captured the .CR2 images. CR2 is a standardized format, so the only thing unique to the 6D about it should be total pixel count and some exif info that identifies the 6D as the capture device. As such, I believe there's no reason you can't take all your lights, darks, flats, bias frames and throw them into your stacking software and come out with calibrated frames and a stacked image.

The issue for software developers is that Canon doesn't have the SDK kit that will provide them the interface to CONTROL the camera (at capture time in other words).

BTW, congrats on the new camera - can't wait to see your images from it!

#12 Mike Clemens

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:32 PM

Great ! I will try that, thanks. I did not know the image format was standardized. I was getting accustomed to software not being able to read anything every time I upgraded cameras.

#13 nofxrx

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

Hi Mike -

I don't think your stacking software will care what camera captured the .CR2 images.


It sure DOES!!!
Software WILL see a difference between the .CR2 of a 450D, and a .CR2 of a 5D Mark II/III, or 6D, 60D, 7D, T2i, etc, etc, etc...

Not sure WHY! so hopefully someone will chime in.

BUt I know for sure that this is the case. I have had way too many models that were not supported by DSS/Images Plus/Maxim/etc and had to wait for updates to the SW for the images to work in the SW!

YMMV, and this is all AFAIK! ;)

#14 nofxrx

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

Congrats on the new camera, Mike!!

the 6D's reviews are making me want to grab one as a backup to my D800! ;) (wife would kill me for sure though..lol)

Cant wait to see some images!! :jump:

As long as you dont plan on imaging very faint Ha rich regions, the mod should never be an issue...
so galaxies, globs and open clusters, reflection neb, etc are all on the list!! ;)

Oh wow...sorry..dreaming of images of M33/M45/M101/M81-82/M51/M83/a million NGC's, etc, etc with the 6D and TEC200!!! :bigshock: :bigshock:
OH man, doesnt the 6D have 1:1 Crop Video mode?? that means AMAZING planetary imaging with your TEC200 and this camera :love: :drool: :drool:
(Probably need a barlow, I suggest ***THIS*** ,it will vignette on a FF sensor, but when in 1:1 crop mode, you will never notice!! oh, not to plug my own biz, but remember I am a Baader rep, so can always get you/any CNer GREAT discounts on ANYthing Baader/AlpineAstro carries!!!)

is there a way to subscribe to EVERY post you make, Mike? :lol:
I am going to be following your progress with high anxiety!
But no pressure :roflmao:

Clear skies!!

#15 hytham

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:04 PM

*sigh* Another thing to add to the list, but this is for terrestrial.

Those images look amazing for ISO 8000!

#16 srosenfraz

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:45 PM

Hi Mike -

I don't think your stacking software will care what camera captured the .CR2 images.


It sure DOES!!!
Software WILL see a difference between the .CR2 of a 450D, and a .CR2 of a 5D Mark II/III, or 6D, 60D, 7D, T2i, etc, etc, etc...



OK, I may stand corrected. According to Mike Unsold's description of IP 5.0 features, "All Canon CR2, CRW, and Nikon NEF DSLR raw formats along with Pentax, Olympus, Kodak, and Adobe DNG raw formats are supported". I'm assuming the 6D falls in the "all Canon CR2" category, but I can't speak from experience.

@Mike_Clemens - If you'd like to post a couple of lights and a dark or two from the 6D, I'd be happy to try a quick calibrate and stack in IP 5.0 so we can see if it works or not. Just shoot me a URL for the CR2 files.

#17 nofxrx

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:20 AM

I dont know...you may be right..
Hopefully someone who knows will chime in here :help:

AFAIK, I know I have had to download the latest versions of DSS(for example) when I bought a 60D last year...it would NOT load/work the images at all until I installed the latest Beta version.
Same happened with Nebulousity...IIRC.. :shrug:
The only SW I have ever used that did work with any model was IRIS, and maybe PixInsight..

I could be wrong and my experiences were just coincidences

#18 Namlak

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:12 AM

It sure DOES!!!
Software WILL see a difference between the .CR2 of a 450D, and a .CR2 of a 5D Mark II/III, or 6D, 60D, 7D, T2i, etc, etc, etc...


Adding another data point... It's common to need an updated version of Adobe Camera RAW to support CR2 files from new models.

#19 HeyJP

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:02 AM

Adobe and Apple have released new versions of their RAW converters in mid-December to support the 6D for Photoshop/Lightroom and iPhoto/Aperture respectively. The new versions are required. There are both calibration and pixel count differences between camera variations of .CR2 files.

Great camera!!!

Jim

#20 mmalik

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:49 AM

I read following about 5D in this... article (page/link 4) but I have not been able to confirm or locate that setting in the manual. Was wondering if 6D has that feature; if yes please point me to the right page in the manual of 5D... and/or 6D...? Thx

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#21 Mike Clemens

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

Interesting feature, but it takes away sky time, and... only 1 dark frame? I have had really good luck shooting my darks at the end of a session and using 20 or 30+

#22 jgraham

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:52 PM

I've been conducting some experiments with a 550D using the internal versus external darks with excellent results. Pairing a light with an immediate dark is a very powerful technique. It would be neat if you could pair the dark with the light taken immediately before and immediately after the dark was taken, however, a single dark several frames removed from the light would be of limited value. The biggest benefit is nearly perfect temperature matching between the dark and light. The BIG misconception about using internal darks is that the time taking them is wasted when it could have been spent taking a light. Keep in mind that the whole purpose of stacking images is to reduce noise and this method of taking and applying darks preserves the noise information that would have been taken if the frame had happend to be a light instead of a dark. So far my experiments suggest that the method of using internal darks becomes roughly equivalent to external darks after about 10 frames (10 light/dark pairs versus 10 lights and 16 external darks). I haven't taken a stand-alone dark in over a year.

Food for thought, but of course use whatever gives you acceptable results.

#23 Footbag

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

First off, every time I upgrade my Canon camera, I need to update the RAW Codec. So there is a difference in RAW files between cameras. Personally, I think Canon needs to address and improve this.

And a question...
Does live view work over the WiFi?

#24 Mike Clemens

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

Yes I can use liveview over wifi, from the computer, or from an Android phone.

#25 Mike Clemens

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

Interesting stuff. I can't imagine any better use for clear stable skies though than collecting photons from the target subject. My dark management has never gone perfectly and I get varying results. I think the in-camera darks would be more consistent but I would be unwilling to sacrifice the sky time.

Keep in mind that the whole purpose of stacking images is to reduce noise and this method of taking and applying darks preserves the noise information that would have been taken if the frame had happend to be a light instead of a dark. So far my experiments suggest that the method of using internal darks becomes roughly equivalent to external darks after about 10 frames (10 light/dark pairs versus 10 lights and 16 external darks).








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