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Any other mounts besides a parallelogram?

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#51 rydberg

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:52 AM

Oh, SMark!
You had to mention how good the Canon 15x50 are on the magic arm...Like I need to spend more money on mounts :bawling:
Just to repay you in kind :grin: , instead of building a Dobsonian base, why don't you get a sun-tracker chair and find a way to mount the magic arm to its frame?
Sun tracker
Marco

#52 wky46

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:26 PM

Nice chair Marco. Do you have one? Just wondering about the build quality (of course). I've been thinking about kinda the same concept but simply using a lazy susan bearing, sandwiched between two sheets of plywood and just setting a reclining lawnchair upon that. I'm sure it's been done a bunch but just wondering what size bearing that could handle the load and footprint.

#53 SMark

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

Oh, SMark!
You had to mention how good the Canon 15x50 are on the magic arm...Like I need to spend more money on mounts :bawling:
Just to repay you in kind :grin: , instead of building a Dobsonian base, why don't you get a sun-tracker chair and find a way to mount the magic arm to its frame?
Sun tracker
Marco


Heh Heh... ;)

Yeah, the Suntracker should work well with the Magic Arm. I like the zero gravity chair because it does zenith with ease and comfort. Observing at zenith is most difficult with a typical tripod, unless you have 45°/90° setup (which I don't.)

Any time you attach your instrument to the same frame you are sitting in, you will get unwanted movement and vibrations affecting the image to some extent. It's not a whole lot in this case, but the Canon IS makes it zero.

#54 rydberg

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:39 PM

Hello WKY46:
No, I don't own one. I am always considering it, but I seem never to decide, one way or the other. I read somewhere, IIRC, that the bearings on the base are rated at 250 lb.
I think someone on the forum has it, if you do a search over the last couple of years.

Marco in Richmond, KY.

#55 faackanders2

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

Just got my order of:
Manfrotto Magic Arm w/ Camera bracket
Manfrotto 035RL Super Clamp w/Standard Stud(for 25x100 binos)
Barska Binocular Tripod adapter (2ea for smaller binos)
$145.60 free shipping

Below freezing temps and cloudy outside. So I decided to set up inside on my zero gravity chair. Everything set up easy, but the majic arm clamp was harder to do than I expected. It probably would work great with my 9&15x63 Orion Mini Giants (but since I already have a garrett pivoting pistol grip monopod, my main interest was the 25x100s which I have never been able to use at zenith with comfort).

As mentioned above the standard stud was needed for the 25x100 vertical post. The 10lb weight of the binos is too much for horizontal viewing with 25x100s (the ball joint pivot will hold hold position canterlevered out horizontally with such a moment arm. However I am marginally able to look vertical with the 25x100, since I only have to hold up a fraction of the 10 lbs weight above my eyes (and my forehead/face can also support the reduced effective weight (with no risk of getting black eyes like hand holding without any support which I attempted once 2 minutes for the North American one summer :lol:). So I think I will be able to look at the zenith with my 25x100 on a clear night (and then I'll try the easier 9&15x63 and smaller binos. Should be real comfortable for the relatively static "comet of the century". But the Orion paralleogram (which I returned) would probably have worked better for 9&15x63mm and smaller binos.

#56 Gordon Rayner

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:26 AM

I saw a Magic Arm and Super Clamp holding a DSLR camera at a nature park two days ago.

There seem to be numerous adjustments, which would need to be repeated every time a new target were chosen. One might get lost while re-orienting and re-clamping? Am I missing something?

The Orion P-gram does not have sufficient axes for reclined use. There are many and better self-made multiple axis ( or to which more axes can be straightforwardly added) wood and/or metal p-grams easily found by a search in CN and/or Google.
One might succeed with only a hand drill( perhaps even one of the old "eggbeater" type )and a handsaw or hacksaw, and some sharp handfiles, but a drill press or a stand for a hand drill would be a big help, as would a vise/vice.

Bearings can be bronze sleeve T-shaped, from McMaster-Carr or Reid's ("for your needs"). Scissor cut Teflon washers. They can be square, or octagonal, and/or multiply stacked on a bolt with two fender washers and a nut, then chucked in the drill press or mounted hand drill, and hand filed circular. The Japanese style " multiple hacksaw blade" handheld files are very fast for that operation.

#57 faackanders2

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:02 PM

The Manfrotto Magic Arm comes with two allen wrenches, to tighten up over time as it gets loose. Would tightening them up now make it better for my heavy 25x100 binos; or would it damage or make it wear out quicker.

I tightened my pistol grip monopod with the provided allen wrench with great sucess of preventing/eliminating creeping/shortening of the monopod with the weight of 9 & 15x63mm Orion Minigiant binos. Before tightening they would not stay up but creed down.

But the manfroto system is mor complicated, and the lever to "lock" is very hard and tight already. Before I use the allen wrenches, I would like some experienced user feedback (to prevent damage and/or give me confidence).

Thanks Ken

#58 faackanders2

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

The Manfrotto Magic Arm comes with two allen wrenches, to tighten up over time as it gets loose. Would tightening them up now make it better for my heavy 25x100 binos; or would it damage or make it wear out quicker.

I tightened my pistol grip monopod with the provided allen wrench with great sucess of preventing/eliminating creeping/shortening of the monopod with the weight of 9 & 15x63mm Orion Minigiant binos. Before tightening they would not stay up but creed down.

But the manfroto system is mor complicated, and the lever to "lock" is very hard and tight already. Before I use the allen wrenches, I would like some experienced user feedback (to prevent damage and/or give me confidence).

Thanks Ken


Also anybody know how these clamp on the inside. Since I sometimes observe in extreme cold (like this month) is there anthing like rubber or bungee cords inside that may snap in the colde, or is everything , metal (cables or breaks, or metal hinges that can take the cold). Anyone out there use them in below freezing temps? Thanks for any feedback, before I learn by trial and error. :confused:

#59 faackanders2

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:45 PM

With below zero farenheight temps I have not tried the Manfrotto Magic Arm outside. Yesterday it even hurt my nose to breathe. Didn't want to risk anything rubber hidden inside breaking.

#60 Mr. Bill

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

Another option....available from Oberwerk.

If you don't care about correct field orientation, this works real good for zenith viewing.

I use binoculars for sweeping Milky Way structure and find this method works great without reclining and obviously there is no neck strain.

:cool:

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#61 wky46

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:40 PM

I've never viewed with a mirror, but the design has always intrigued me. I may just rig something a little more crude than yours with the materials I have on hand. Thanks for the inspiration.... Phil

#62 faackanders2

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

Just got my order of:
Manfrotto Magic Arm w/ Camera bracket
Manfrotto 035RL Super Clamp w/Standard Stud(for 25x100 binos)
Barska Binocular Tripod adapter (2ea for smaller binos)
$145.60 free shipping

Below freezing temps and cloudy outside. So I decided to set up inside on my zero gravity chair. Everything set up easy, but the majic arm clamp was harder to do than I expected. It probably would work great with my 9&15x63 Orion Mini Giants (but since I already have a garrett pivoting pistol grip monopod, my main interest was the 25x100s which I have never been able to use at zenith with comfort).

As mentioned above the standard stud was needed for the 25x100 vertical post. The 10lb weight of the binos is too much for horizontal viewing with 25x100s (the ball joint pivot will hold hold position canterlevered out horizontally with such a moment arm. However I am marginally able to look vertical with the 25x100, since I only have to hold up a fraction of the 10 lbs weight above my eyes (and my forehead/face can also support the reduced effective weight (with no risk of getting black eyes like hand holding without any support which I attempted once 2 minutes for the North American one summer :lol:). So I think I will be able to look at the zenith with my 25x100 on a clear night (and then I'll try the easier 9&15x63 and smaller binos. Should be real comfortable for the relatively static "comet of the century". But the Orion paralleogram (which I returned) would probably have worked better for 9&15x63mm and smaller binos.


Used the Manfrotto Arm on with 25x100 binos and my zero gravity chair to look ar M42, Jupiter, and M45. It was basically a 3 handed operation. 2 hands required to hold 10 lb binos in place, and one to rotate the lock lever 180 degrees under alot of tension. Since I don't have 3 hands (or another helper), I had to hold binos with one hand and the lever in the other, and hence I got exhausted after 10 minutes, and never really able to lock in the desired position (but I did get close within a few degrees. The majic arm did provide some weight assist, but overall the mount was too wobbly under the 10 lb weight, and the image was way too shaky. Collimation of the binos got off with all the weard movements, and awkward to push tubes in and out to reallign while holding up above my eyes. The cold, thick clothing, and gloves didn't help either. I may try this once agian with my 25x100 in the summer with the Viel and North American.

However the next time I test the manfrotto arm it will be with my lighter 2.3lb 9&15x63mm Orion minigiant binos.

The arm appeared to be steady with binos removed. I kept the gravity chair in the garage, but easily removed the manfrotto arm to store inside since the warning label said not in the cold. Removing the arm from the chair was easier than removing the 25x100 binos from the arm, but this was my first time using it outside in the cold.

Question - If I was able to try first, would I still buy it. No, but I will not return it since it appears to look good for my other binos and camera. My garret monopod works best standing, and not so well when seated or lying down in the gravity free chair.

#63 faackanders2

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:59 AM

At one time I thought about getting the mirror system fro my 25x100 binos, but I believe it was $500 and where I observe I get lots of dew and/or ice so I thought it would not be very usable with an exposed flat surface (and for that money a UT parallelogram would be better in the non term).

#64 wky46

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

My experience with the Magic Arm clamped to a lawn chair holding my 10x50's was that it seemed the arm just isn't long enough to fully articulate. And to re-adjust the position of the arm, one has to contort in an uncomfortable position to loosen or tighten the lever. I haven't tried, but I would think that even with the Magic Arm clamped to a tripod next to the chair, at 18.5" fully extended there wouldn't be enough length to operate effectively (again, I haven't tried). I'm gonna make it work though with the Magic Arm clamped to a PVC extension off the tripod to add some length and have it infront of me instead of clamped behind me. I tried it clamped to a microphone boom stand but unfortunately, the mic boom could not hold the weight.... Phil

#65 Mr. Bill

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

At one time I thought about getting the mirror system fro my 25x100 binos, but I believe it was $500 and where I observe I get lots of dew and/or ice so I thought it would not be very usable with an exposed flat surface (and for that money a UT parallelogram would be better in the non term).


I agree with your reasoning...the largest binocular that can be used without vignetting with my setup would be 80mm.

Also, dewing would definitely be a problem in cold, damp weather. I live in the high desert so dew is generally not an issue.

:cool:

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#66 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

I recently built a Peterson Engineering EZ Binoc Mount and it is absolutely fantastic. Easy to use standing, sitting or reclined. I painted it and it stays out in the backyard.

#67 guangtou

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:29 AM

I also have the Peterson Pipe mount and love it. Handles my 11# binocs wonderfully and is easy to use.

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#68 eklf

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:42 AM

How is the damping time for the Peterson mount? 'looks like it would sway in the slightest wind?

#69 guangtou

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

The damping time will be longer than it would be mounted on a tripod but not objectionable by any means. It is a lot more stable than it looks and I have used mine for over 2 years now. The key is achieving the correct balance with the counterweights. The only downside I find is that it isn't very portable. To that end I bought a heavy duty tripod and panhead. However, after the peterson I can hardly stand to use the binocs on the tripod.

#70 eklf

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

That is good to know. I really like the simplicity of the unit. The price is right too.

#71 wky46

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:15 PM

Thanks! I'll check into it :).....Phil

#72 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

I've only used the EZ Binoc mount with my 10x50 Pentax so far, and the mount is incredibly smooth and stable in my experience. As Guangtou mentions, balance is key.

I am looking forward to trying it out with 100mm binocs eventually, and also planning on building a second one to leave at my parents house. It can be a bit expensive depending on how much you have to pay for the steel pipe and fittings, and lapping the threads can be a bit messy.

#73 faackanders2

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:15 PM

HOW MUCH IS THE PETERSON PIPE mOUNT?

Unfortunately my back yard is small with alot of trees.
I observe from my driveway, front yard, and remote sites about 20min away.

I like the UT 6 DOF sytem to use with my zero gravity chair. But I know it would be very expensive (and more than the 25x100mm binos themselves).

P.S. I also have asperations of potentially owning a 150mm bino 90 deg version, but believe these would be limited to tripod mounting, so they would not be a factor in parallelogram/pipe mount system selection.

#74 Gordon Rayner

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

Who makes the "UT 6 Degrees of Freedom system"?

Are those Azimuth 1, Azimuth 2 ( the hinge or elbow), pitch, yaw, roll ? That is five degrees. What is the sixth? Is that the up-down movement provided by the parallelogram mechanism?

#75 faackanders2

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:34 PM

Who makes the "UT 6 Degrees of Freedom system"?

Are those Aximuth 1, Azimuth 2 ( the hinge or elbow), pitch, yaw, roll ? That is five degrees. What is the sixth? Is that the up-down movement provided by the parallelogram mechanism?


Universal Astronomics

"Besides making night sky observation much more comfortable, a parallelgram mount gives a big range of eyepiece height without adjusting the tripod- and without loss of target (ideal for sharing the view with kids). Universal Astronomics manufactures the finest parallelogram-type mounts on the market, and they are 100% made in the USA. The basic Unimount features 4 degrees of motion, and up to 6 degrees of motion can be achieved with the addition of the Ultra-Swing Hinge and Deluxe L Adapter. Even with all those pivot points, there is virtually zero slop or backlash. While observing the night sky, you'll feel like the mount is not even there. Because all axis' are in perfect balance, the binocular simply "floats", while you effortlessly point it in any direction. For the ultimate in comfort, try it with a reclining lawn chair (Ultra-Swing option recommended). Six degrees of motion allows viewing almost the entire sky without moving your chair!
Comes with 10 lbs. of counterweight, so it will balance binoculars as large as the Oberwerk 25x100IF. Bottom-mount binoculars attach directly to the included dovetail base. For those with a narrow IPD (inter-pupillary distance), the standard dovetail should be upgraded to the "riser dovetail", which adds clearance so minimum IPD can be achieved without interference with the binocular's objective tubes. For binoculars that have a tripod adapter socket on the front of the body, order the Deluxe L Adapter. If you prefer an L adapter that does not swivel, choose the Oberwerk Heavy-Duty L Adapter. Need a tripod? The Oberwerk Wood Tripod is perfect for this mount.


4 to 6 degrees of motion (depending on options)
All bearings are teflon-lined
Max. Load: 10 lbs."

I thought they had a longer heavier version for 25x100 binos from a reclining zero gravity chair, but couldn't find it in my brief search.

Ken






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