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Some price advice please, TOA 150 VS AP 155 EDFS

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#26 JJK

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

Reason I wouldn't recommend Astro-physics is mainly because I think as a company they have created this false sense of quality/value in astronomy industry because they produce ‘em in such small quantities. Thx


Nonsense. A company in itself cannot create a sense of value or quality. Only the consumers have this ability. If nobody thought the A-P scopes were worth buying, they wouldn't fetch such high prices second hand. A-P makes a small number of scopes, because that is how they feel they have the ability to ensure the quality they want to provide. They don't do this to artificially increase the prices. If they had done so, they should sell their scopes at considerably higher prices than they actually do.

And no, I don't own any A-P products.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


I second Thomas' point.

I've been fortunate to have had most of A-P's modern telescopes (92 mm f/5 StowAway through 180 mm f/9 EDT, and the 10" Mak-Cass). A-P makes top-notch photo-visual telescopes. Unless one pays crazy money for these OTAs (I did twice), they're excellent values.

A-P also designed their OTAs to interface with high quality accessories that won't break the bank.

To the recent buyer of the 155 f/7 EDFs, you'll really enjoy the scope. I still have my 2003 155 EDF (4" focuser), even though I have the new 175 f/8.

#27 chboss

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:19 AM

Enjoy, good catch!

regards
Chris

#28 mmalik

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

...local seller with a collection of fine telescopes who bought this one mostly as an investment


Congrats on the new scope; hope you didn't over pay? Scarcity is a driving force for the pricing of such scopes (new and used) in my opinion. Good luck

#29 mark8888

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

...local seller with a collection of fine telescopes who bought this one mostly as an investment


Congrats on the new scope; hope you didn't over pay? Scarcity is a driving force for the pricing of such scopes (new and used) in my opinion. Good luck



Coffee flavored gum is also kind of a rarity, but it ain't valuable because a lot of people think it's gross, and they buy other gum instead. Scarcity alone isn't enough to raise the price of a product by even a cent if no one wants it.

#30 JJK

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:35 AM

...local seller with a collection of fine telescopes who bought this one mostly as an investment


Congrats on the new scope; hope you didn't over pay? Scarcity is a driving force for the pricing of such scopes (new and used) in my opinion. Good luck



Coffee flavored gum is also kind of a rarity, but it ain't valuable because a lot of people think it's gross, and they buy other gum instead. Scarcity alone isn't enough to raise the price of a product by even a cent if no one wants it.


mmalik's comment was clearly targeted to scopes, not gum. His(?) opinion is supported demonstrably by the history of resales of A-P scopes. Many have paid a great deal of money to purchase high quality A-P or Zeiss apos that are no longer made, not only because they are scarce, but because the products are first-rate.

#31 mark8888

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

mmalik's comment was clearly targeted to scopes, not gum. His(?) opinion is supported demonstrably by the history of resales of A-P scopes. Many have paid a great deal of money to purchase high quality A-P or Zeiss apos that are no longer made, not only because they are scarce, but because the products are first-rate.


He said earlier in the thread "Reason I wouldn't recommend Astro-physics is mainly because I think as a company they have created this false sense of quality/value in astronomy industry because they produce ‘em in such small quantities." My point is that it's not possible to create a false sense of quality by producing something in small quantities. For example you can produce 100 or a million pieces of coffee flavored gum, but people won't want to buy it if they also don't see it as high quality. Making only 100 pieces won't create a "false sense of quality" if it doesn't taste excellent.



#32 Rossmon

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

I am surprised this thread is still lingering on.
Here's how I see it for the value in my particular purchase.
First, after listening, reading, testing etc. you decide that AP scopes are
a combo of best quality and resale for an outrageously expensive
purchase. For years of looking at all the top brands, AP seemed to me as the scope to spend a small fortune on with hopes of getting most or more back, ome day when you are too old to use it anymore.
Then, the current model lineup. The next of the line is the 160edf.
It is .2" bigger. A barely noticeable difference in resolution. Yet, used it costs as much as most 7" scopes! Roughly twice the cost of my 155. That's
if you can find one. So thats $20k for a 160, $10K for a 155! One person contacted me with a 160 and then was undecided if he wanted to sell it. So, that really makes my 155 a fantastic deal with a lot of room to appreciate more. It also made it the only deal that I could look at if I wanted a 6" AP. With selling some of my other scopes, I could get it for a few thousand more. $13K more would have been a real deal breaker.
I think I mentioned that the guy I bought from had a TEC 140. This was his fallback scope now that he was older and having trouble mounting the big 155 tube. He was quick to mention that the optics were not as good on the TEC as on the 155. With no reason to be unbiased, I think it shows why these scopes command such prices and loyalty. Most agree with Roland. that this high quality is the outcome of making them slowly in smaller quantities.
One last thing, the AP 155 is lighter than any of the other tubes in its class, by quite a bit in comparison to some brands. It's usually us older guys who can pony up this much $$ and that weight becomes a concern. I am in excellent shape, but this 155 is a handful at 23 lbs due to the bulk and the fear of creating the slightest scratch by some unplanned movement.

#33 JJK

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:22 PM

I am surprised this thread is still lingering on.
Here's how I see it for the value in my particular purchase.
First, after listening, reading, testing etc. you decide that AP scopes are
a combo of best quality and resale for an outrageously expensive
purchase. For years of looking at all the top brands, AP seemed to me as the scope to spend a small fortune on with hopes of getting most or more back, ome day when you are too old to use it anymore.
Then, the current model lineup. The next of the line is the 160edf.
It is .2" bigger. A barely noticeable difference in resolution. Yet, used it costs as much as most 7" scopes! Roughly twice the cost of my 155. That's
if you can find one. So thats $20k for a 160, $10K for a 155! One person contacted me with a 160 and then was undecided if he wanted to sell it. So, that really makes my 155 a fantastic deal with a lot of room to appreciate more. It also made it the only deal that I could look at if I wanted a 6" AP. With selling some of my other scopes, I could get it for a few thousand more. $13K more would have been a real deal breaker.
I think I mentioned that the guy I bought from had a TEC 140. This was his fallback scope now that he was older and having trouble mounting the big 155 tube. He was quick to mention that the optics were not as good on the TEC as on the 155. With no reason to be unbiased, I think it shows why these scopes command such prices and loyalty. Most agree with Roland. that this high quality is the outcome of making them slowly in smaller quantities.
One last thing, the AP 155 is lighter than any of the other tubes in its class, by quite a bit in comparison to some brands. It's usually us older guys who can pony up this much $$ and that weight becomes a concern. I am in excellent shape, but this 155 is a handful at 23 lbs due to the bulk and the fear of creating the slightest scratch by some unplanned movement.


Rossmon, find someone with an AP180 f/9 EDT with the optional 4" focuser and lift it on a mount a half-dozen times. After that, the 155 f/7 EDFS will look and feel like an AP Traveler (I even felt that way about my 155 f/7 EDF)!

An A-P 155 EDFS around $10K is an excellent deal.

#34 M13 Observer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:40 PM

I am surprised this thread is still lingering on.
Here's how I see it for the value in my particular purchase.
First, after listening, reading, testing etc. you decide that AP scopes are
a combo of best quality and resale for an outrageously expensive
purchase. For years of looking at all the top brands, AP seemed to me as the scope to spend a small fortune on with hopes of getting most or more back, ome day when you are too old to use it anymore.
Then, the current model lineup. The next of the line is the 160edf.
It is .2" bigger. A barely noticeable difference in resolution. Yet, used it costs as much as most 7" scopes! Roughly twice the cost of my 155. That's
if you can find one. So thats $20k for a 160, $10K for a 155! One person contacted me with a 160 and then was undecided if he wanted to sell it. So, that really makes my 155 a fantastic deal with a lot of room to appreciate more. It also made it the only deal that I could look at if I wanted a 6" AP. With selling some of my other scopes, I could get it for a few thousand more. $13K more would have been a real deal breaker.
I think I mentioned that the guy I bought from had a TEC 140. This was his fallback scope now that he was older and having trouble mounting the big 155 tube. He was quick to mention that the optics were not as good on the TEC as on the 155. With no reason to be unbiased, I think it shows why these scopes command such prices and loyalty. Most agree with Roland. that this high quality is the outcome of making them slowly in smaller quantities.
One last thing, the AP 155 is lighter than any of the other tubes in its class, by quite a bit in comparison to some brands. It's usually us older guys who can pony up this much $$ and that weight becomes a concern. I am in excellent shape, but this 155 is a handful at 23 lbs due to the bulk and the fear of creating the slightest scratch by some unplanned movement.


Rossmon, find someone with an AP180 f/9 EDT with the optional 4" focuser and lift it on a mount a half-dozen times. After that, the 155 f/7 EDFS will look and feel like an AP Traveler (I even felt that way about my 155 f/7 EDF)!

An A-P 155 EDFS around $10K is an excellent deal.


I would second that! My 155 is my go-to scope. While it is an EDF with the 4" focuser, it is still a LOT lighter and easier to handle than the next one up the ladder.

As to worrying about scratching something, don't! This telescope was made to be used. A friend of mine has a 130EDF which is lovingly well used. It has scratches and chips in the paint - and it is a superb instrument. I would be proud to own such. If the inconsequential condition of the paint job worries you so much then, in my opinion, purchase something else.

#35 BarrySimon615

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:50 AM

As to worrying about scratching something, don't! This telescope was made to be used. A friend of mine has a 130EDF which is lovingly well used. It has scratches and chips in the paint - and it is a superb instrument. I would be proud to own such. If the inconsequential condition of the paint job worries you so much then, in my opinion, purchase something else.


Why not the best of both worlds? I think that there are many of us that not only love to use our telescopes but also find that with little effort we can keep them looking new. After all part of the enjoyment of ownership is taking some pride in the appearance of the instrument that we have taken care of from day 1 or that we have lovingly restored.

In addition, like it or not, eventually most scopes will be sold as we either upgrade, downsize or die. It is a fact of life that a scope that looks great as well as performs well will command a higher price than one that has been ridden hard and hung up wet.

Barry Simon

#36 Rossmon

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:51 AM

]
Why not the best of both worlds? I think that there are many of us that not only love to use our telescopes but also find that with little effort we can keep them looking new. After all part of the enjoyment of ownership is taking some pride in the appearance of the instrument that we have taken care of from day 1 or that we have lovingly restored.

In addition, like it or not, eventually most scopes will be sold as we either upgrade, downsize or die. It is a fact of life that a scope that looks great as well as performs well will command a higher price than one that has been ridden hard and hung up wet.

Barry Simon


I could not have said it better! With some care, I still get to use all my toys as much as i want. It also pays back the craftsmen who put so much time into a great and stunning job. At least thats how I feel about the beautiful things I have built and own. A lot more stuff than Telescopes

#37 M13 Observer

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:00 AM

As to worrying about scratching something, don't! This telescope was made to be used. A friend of mine has a 130EDF which is lovingly well used. It has scratches and chips in the paint - and it is a superb instrument. I would be proud to own such. If the inconsequential condition of the paint job worries you so much then, in my opinion, purchase something else.


Why not the best of both worlds? I think that there are many of us that not only love to use our telescopes but also find that with little effort we can keep them looking new. After all part of the enjoyment of ownership is taking some pride in the appearance of the instrument that we have taken care of from day 1 or that we have lovingly restored.

In addition, like it or not, eventually most scopes will be sold as we either upgrade, downsize or die. It is a fact of life that a scope that looks great as well as performs well will command a higher price than one that has been ridden hard and hung up wet.

Barry Simon


Like I said, it is lovingly well used, and I do mean WELL used. It has spent more time under dark skies with an eyeball peering through the eyepiece in it than any telescope I can think of by any owner. The marks are like a fine patina of age.

And yes, they do get the occasional ding here and there, even with the best of intentions to protect them from such. If they get moved five or ten times a month, at multiple locations, on and off a mount for well over ten years, these marks just "appear".

It is also a fact of life that I buy telescopes to use. They might get a bit of figurative drool on them from time to time when I look at them sitting on the mount ready to image or view through, but mine are not investments to be hidden away safe from all harm either. As long as the glass and mechanics are undamaged, I'll just use the telescope - and I'll leave the insignificant and mostly unnoticed chip and scratch restoration to someone who values such much more than I.






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