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#501 DaveJ

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:30 PM

Could someone, when they get a chance, try to do a solar system align during the day and see what happens? Boot as normal, when SS asks for input, scroll through align options until you get to solar system. Choose the moon or a planet. Press enter. Does it slew to where it thinks the target is or not? Try it with your old hand controller next. Does it work?


I can state unequivocally that the old NexStar controllers on my CGE and CGEM DX both behave as you're asking. They will slew the telescope to where the solar system object is expected to be. I do this all the time when I set up for solar viewing.

#502 Jim Meadows

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:58 PM

Could someone, when they get a chance, try to do a solar system align during the day and see what happens?

Boot as normal, when SS asks for input, scroll through align options until you get to solar system. Choose the moon or a planet. Press enter. Does it slew to where it thinks the target is or not? Try it with your old hand controller next. Does it work?


I did this last week at dusk with my StarSense attached but did not use it. I selected Solar System align and selected Venus for my alignment. I manually centered Venus and completed the align. I was then able to select Saturn and it slewed to Saturn OK.

Jim

#503 Jim Meadows

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:06 PM

Briefly... It's worth the money for the most part. Don't need a laptop or camera like you do with Astro Tortilla so it's a bonus in terms of time saving for visual use. It aligned the mount in under 3 minutes far better than I could unless I took a good 10+ minutes to do so and everything I pointed to DSO wise was dead bang in the center of the EP... But as time went on it managed to snatch epic defeat from the jaws of victory. Possibly due to the moon but not sure.

I agree that this is well worth the money, especially when they finish getting some of the remaining issues cleared up. I am encouraged by your reports of accuracy. I had three good days myself but ran into alignment failures on my fourth when the moon was up. I have reported this to TeamCelestron - hopefully they will get this straightend out. I saw it successfully align for me while it was still twilight when I could barely see any stars and it was finding 100 per plate ok! So I don't know why moon light would be an issue. Being able to get an alignment before it gets dark is a big plus - you would have difficulty doing a standard align that early.

If I read your post right, you accidently tested something I was wondering about. I had read that date and time are not needed to get a good align. The only time they matter is when you are going to view solar system objects since it has to compute their position based on your location, date and time. It's only when you tried to slew to the Moon that it went to the wrong position. Oh, the other thing that location, date and time affects would be computing the horizon limits for equatorial mounts. If all you were viewing were objects outside the solar system then it is my understanding that location, date and time don't matter - it just solves three/four plates and computes an alignment solution that works for finding DSO's.

#504 dr.who

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:33 PM

I did this last night but didn't mention it. I used the moon. It went to where it thought the moon was and was off by a few degrees in both RA and DEC. After adjusting GOTO's were way off on DSO's though it found the moon and Uranus/Neptune just fine. Just like on my old HC.

#505 dr.who

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:37 PM

I agree that this is well worth the money, especially when they finish getting some of the remaining issues cleared up. I am encouraged by your reports of accuracy. I had three good days myself but ran into alignment failures on my fourth when the moon was up. I have reported this to TeamCelestron - hopefully they will get this straightend out. I saw it successfully align for me while it was still twilight when I could barely see any stars and it was finding 100 per plate ok! So I don't know why moon light would be an issue. Being able to get an alignment before it gets dark is a big plus - you would have difficulty doing a standard align that early.


Good to know you had problems with the moon too. And that they are hopefully fixing it. Please do let us (me) know if you hear back from them and what they say. Perhaps it may have to do with the diffuse light at dusk vs. the bright light of the moon...?

I will try that tonight when I get home. Hopefully it works! :)

If I read your post right, you accidently tested something I was wondering about. I had read that date and time are not needed to get a good align. The only time they matter is when you are going to view solar system objects since it has to compute their position based on your location, date and time. It's only when you tried to slew to the Moon that it went to the wrong position. Oh, the other thing that location, date and time affects would be computing the horizon limits for equatorial mounts. If all you were viewing were objects outside the solar system then it is my understanding that location, date and time don't matter - it just solves three/four plates and computes an alignment solution that works for finding DSO's.


And this makes perfect sense. Thank you. :jump:

#506 neilson  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:31 PM

Hi,
I'm wondering if these problems are causing a hold up on delivery of the remaining SS that are back ordered. I wish they would release the new firmware instead of beta testing it. If they would release it then there would be a larger group testing and problems, if any, would come out faster. They can always release another update if it needs it. I'm hoping there will be more updates with new features anyways.

Neilson

#507 C8er

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

Hi Neilson,

If you go and join up at the team celestron website you might possibly get slightly earlier access to the firmware. You can apply to be a public beta tester there (that is different from the private beta testers they use before release of products). So far they only released a test fix for the lockups during aligns to one user and have said they are working on other fixes, but the starsense team have been as far as I can see completely uncommunicative wtih any users/beta testers for almost two weeks now, after responding the week before last to several of us.

Anyway sign up there for the best chance of perhaps getting firmware early.

Chris.

Hi,
I'm wondering if these problems are causing a hold up on delivery of the remaining SS that are back ordered. I wish they would release the new firmware instead of beta testing it. If they would release it then there would be a larger group testing and problems, if any, would come out faster. They can always release another update if it needs it. I'm hoping there will be more updates with new features anyways.

Neilson



#508 C8er

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:23 PM

Hi Whichway,

I have done daytime solar system aligns and they give completely rubbish and below horizon gotos on my 8SE mount, but a nighttime solar system align works just fine with the unit on my CG-5 (I think at least one daytime solar system align on the CG-5 gave garbage gotos afterwards though). I can put my old nexstar+ HC back on the SE mount and the solar systems aligns work fine again.

Like someone else saw happening, when I ask the CG-5 to do a goto to home position using the starsense HC it gets the RA home position correct but the DEC home is out by 90 degrees.

With all my comments take note that I'm southern hemisphere so all or some of my problem may be related to southern hemipshere only bugs.

I think anyone reporting problems with these units needs to be careful to talk of the problem as being on a particular model of mount, as it is already clear that different mounts are having very different problems with these starsense units, and some other mount models seem to be working well with them.

And then the units seem to be working on some mounts in the northern hemisphere, but perhaps not in the southern hemisphere on the same mount.

I just wish Celestron would be more communicative about what they doing to fix these problems. The starsense support people have't as far as I know communicated at all with any of us users with problems for almost two weeks now, after one initial week of good contact with some of us.

Cheers,
Chris

Could someone, when they get a chance, try to do a solar system align during the day and see what happens?

Boot as normal, when SS asks for input, scroll through align options until you get to solar system. Choose the moon or a planet. Press enter. Does it slew to where it thinks the target is or not? Try it with your old hand controller next. Does it work?



#509 neilson  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:08 PM

Hi Chris,
I too am a member of Team Celestron. I have not received my SS yet and with this silence from them I was wondering if theres going to be another delay. I expected to have mine back in March on the original release date. then the June date, then September. While September still has 10 days I'm just wondering how much longer. If they are going to hold everything up until its fixed and beta tested for several months or if they are going to release them and let us update them. And I wonder how long they plan to test this new firmware, I have a CGE and can't use it until they fix the firmware.

Neilson

#510 Carrera991

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:44 PM

Team Celestron is worthless. I am a member and want to do beta testing and there is no communication from them. I have a CGE Pro mount. I was advised by CS not to use the StarSense. When I asked the timetable for a patch they will not respond. Horrible customer service. They must have hired the people from Meade. Next mount is a SB or AP. I know they have problems but at least they have customer service. Celestron does not. I have a $300 paperweight.

#511 dr.who

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:59 PM

Epic fail again tonight so on the phone to Celestron tomorrow. Commonality is each failure has one or more photos were 100 stars are detected. All are in the East direction with the moon at about 20-40 degrees above the horizon. 100 stars seem very unrealistic in a white LP zone with the moon up by the way.

HC VERSION 01.06.13226 build Aug 14, 2013 at 030204 hrs
CAM VERSION 01.01.13177
Advanced VX mount motor control version 7.8

#512 cn register 5

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 04:16 AM

Is the Moon shining in the SS camera? If the camera is looking East that's more or less where the moon is isn't it?

I've had plenty of successful aligns with 100 stars detected, I think that's some sort of limit and not necessarily an indication of a problem.

Are you able to get to the Cal Reference display and get data about the position detected and the error?

By the way, people were asking if the SS HC slews to the solar system object when it does a solar system align. It doesn't, you have to driver there from the index position yourself. This is on the AVX. I asked for this in several beta versions and it's due to come later. Quick Align also doesn't work, although if you go into a Manual SS align, back out and then go to Quick Align it does.

The primary beta testers are also getting restive. We haven't had anything for over a month either.

Chris

#513 Whichwayisnorth

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 04:40 PM

I guess that explains it.

#514 dr.who

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 04:43 PM

Hi Chris-

The Moon is not shining directly into the SS lens but since it is such a wide field lens I think that it may be picking up the light from the moon. For me the moon is slightly South East and I am pointing it North East but again there is going to be light bleeding in in my opinion.

As to the 100 star limit... Quite possible but since the reports I get on the other points I am using for calibration range from 17 to 93 stars I would find it highly suspect that all of a sudden on a full moon night in a white LP zone it would go from 64 stars in one area to over 100 in another and only then in a direction where the moon is.

I took notes yesterday on two of the readings and this is what I have:

1953 hours manual align
50 stars North West
52 stars North
72 stars South West
19 stars South West

align fails

1958 hours auto align
50 stars 45* 19' 55" didn't get the second number
93 stars 20* 16' 72" x 150* 00' 12"
100 stars 130* 29' 30" x 60* 00' 12"
100 stars 165* 13' 54" x 48* 13' 17"

Align fail. It was also interesting in that it would take two pictures as well as do the solving as it was moving the mount

2006 hrs aprox
60 stars 45* 00' missed seconds x 60* 135' 00"
91 stars 14* 51' 14" x 150* 00' 12"
100 stars 60* 00' 11" x 165* 00' 12"
100 stars 50* 00' 11" x 154* 36' 11"
Align fails.
Note these numbers were written in the dark and scribbles and were in motion when I took them so they are approximates and may be errors.

I will try again tonight time willing and see if I can get more accurate data.

I have a report from someone else who is having the same problem that the error code is 61 I will try to confirm that tonight.

#515 munchmeister

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:42 PM

Here is my first light report: after a couple weeks of record breaking rain here in Northern Colorado, we are starting to dry out and last night, 9/20, I had clear skies with a waning Gibbous, 99%, but that was obscured, for the most part, by trees. But my reaction: FANTASTIC !! I just plunked down my 8SE in the driveway, no leveling (though it is pretty level) and started the initial procedure, then the centering procedure, turned it off as instructed, and did the initial procedure again, which is really no procedure at all. Turn it on and follow the simple instructions on the hand control. I did not copy down all the information displayed by the readout but found it interesting to watch the display as it moved through acquiring image, solving, etc. and providing a readout of the results. I also did not time it but it could not have been more than the 3 minutes reported by others for it to do its thing. Alignment successful ! Let's get to stargazing !! The first test: Arcturus, since I, a true amateur, don't know many star names, especially when in a red/ orange zone with a full moon out. The only things I could see were very bright stars, yet the SS reported solving 100 stars per capture.

Back to the test. Arcturus. Bang on !! OK, I am cautiously starting to feel good. Popped around to several double stars, though most could not be resolved in my Celestron 40mm eyepiece or my Orion 20mm centeriing eyepiece, which I had used for the centering procedure. So we tried M2. Bang on. M15. Bang on. Let's try the Ring Nebula. Badda bing, badda boom. There it is. I had not seen that in a long time. We tried some other DSOs but realized we couldn't see them as the moon was rising and, of course, my scope was dewing up pretty bad (remember all that rain !!). So we called it a night pretty early. But if I can do this repeatedly, it is some of the best astro money I've ever spent.

As I said, I am an eternal amateur. I have wanted to view things like the Ring and show it to family and friends, and at outreach events, for a long, long time. I get frustrated with too much fussing and fighting to get where I want to be. Others like the search process, the pouring over star charts, the star hopping. I simply want to see the darned things. I certainly do not begrudge the dedicated. Admiration is much more descriptive. You guys ROCK. But at my age, with grandchildren growing up, I want to be able to show them the stars. I want to be able to go to the astronomy club events and feel like more than dead weight at the end of Dobsonian row. I think this Starsense accessory might get me there and I'm happy to spend the money on the device if it gets me to that goal. Just my $.02.

Oh and my brother hooked his netbook into the mix and that worked well too. No issues. Go to with the netbook, go to with the hand control. Seemed to work just fine. I think this is just astonishing technology. A small device that mounts on my OTA so easily, with a hand control that guides me through a quick and easy setup and gives these results: priceless !

Sorry to hear others' experiences are not as positive, but I am a happy camper/ backyard astronomer.

Hope this is helpful to some. ;-)

#516 Dave M

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:22 PM

Celestron`s response to the updates on the SSA was moved to the Vendors forum

#517 dan.ostler

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:42 AM

Finally picked up my SS after many months of waiting. Haven't had a chance to set it up yet but read the manual and all posts in this forum from page 1 - most helpful.

I have one question. The manual says to make all centering movements UP and RIGHT. I believe this means that the object needs to be off center in the upper right quadrant of the field of view so one can slew up and right to center it. If after the SS has slewed to an object it is off center anywhere else one puts it first in the upper right quadrant and finishes with up and right.

Depending on whether one has a diagonal or not the buttons pushed may NOT be the UP and RIGHT, which I assume would move the barrel up and right.

Sorry if this was covered long ago in a Celestron forum.

Thanks
Dan

#518 Stew57

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:47 AM

Always finish with the up and right buttons on the hand controller.

#519 neilson  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:46 AM

I always wondered about that because isn't everything reversed from one side of the mount to the other. At least on a GEM.

Neilson

#520 rmollise

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:55 AM

Use down and left to position the star so you can center it using up and right only.

#521 dragonslayer1

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:05 AM

Copied from another link I posted earlier
As per Celestron support web site
"The directions can be either positive or negative and are defined as seen from the back of the scope in an equatorial north position. For altitude or declination, positive moves the tube counterclockwise, negative clockwise around the declination axis. For azimuth (RA), positive moves the front of the scope to the right, negative to the left.
Always set the direction of approach in the opposite direction from the load pulling on the scope. This minimizes effects of backlash in the gear train. The load in altitude is usually because of gravity acting on the scope’s imbalance from accessories (eyepieces and the like). The load in azimuth is due to tracking and is opposite (in reaction) to the tracking direction, so the approach direction will be the same direction as tracking.
Whether to set positive or negative in altitude or azimuth depends on your scope, the type of mount, its orientation, southern or northern hemisphere location and load from attached accessories.
Many users stick with the default, which is altitude negative, azimuth positive. For the SCT with a star diagonal, GOTOs will be seen as moving to the up and right with these settings.
For your Advanced GT German equatorial mount, when you flip the scope to the opposite side of the mount when tracking across the meridian, you must change the GOTO DIRECTION in declination (altitude) to maintain minimal backlash.
In the southern hemisphere from behind the scope, the west is to the left, reversing the GOTO APPROACH settings for azimuth (RA)
NOTE: when aligning the mount, use the same approach directions to center your alignment stars as you are using for GOTO APPROACH for the best GOTO performance.
Kasey

#522 dan.ostler

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:33 PM

Many thanks for the replies! The SS is very clear when it says "finish slewing using the UP and RIGHT direction BUTTONS.....this corrects any mechanical backlash in your mount".

The direction buttons reverse at slow slew speeds to make it easier/more logical to center an object in the FOV.

So to properly correct for backlash (forget FOV for now) are the SS instructions meaning that the OT should be moving LEFT and DOWN (when pressing UP and RIGHT at slow slew) in order to have the desired effect on the gears?

And therefore one should never change the default settings for the direction buttons?

Thanks
Dan

#523 dan.ostler

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:38 PM

Posted the above before seeing Kasey's reply, although I am still confused....

Dan

#524 rmollise

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:46 PM

Don't make it more complicated than it is. The instructions mean just what they day: center the star using the up and right buttons. Period. ;)

#525 neilson  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:24 PM

Your only centering on one star when doing the calibration.

Neilson






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