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Dye from ring felt - discoloring white OTA !!!

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#1 Lane

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:17 PM

I removed the rings on my AT 106 the other day and discovered that the dye from the felt had left a faint bluish tint on the OTA. I tried to use car polish to get it off but it would not come out. I suppose it is no big deal since the rings will always be there, but it is pretty annoying. I am guessing that the felt got wet the last time I viewed in heavy dew.

I immediately went and bought some white velcro and threw away the loop part. Then I took the soft part and replaced the black felt on every one of my refractor's rings. I replaced not only the tube ring felt but also the felt that allows the dew shields to slide over the OTA.

Live and learn.

#2 Bill Barlow

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:55 PM

Sorry to hear that. How long have you owned this AT refractor?

Bill

#3 BlueGrass

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

My 106LE rings use rubber instead of felt... Your 106 is the standard 106?

#4 csa/montana

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

Wow; glad I read your post; I'm now going to replace my black felt on my rings with white, to protect my white Vixen!

Thanks for the warning!

#5 starrancher

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:24 PM

I've seen the same thing on my light colored Meade OTAs . Like you said , not a big deal because the rings stay put and the discoloration won't be seen , so I left it alone . I'm surprised that the car polish didn't work as that would have been my first suggestion for a remedy . More like a slight yellowing is what it's done to mine and these have never seen heavy dewing . Just pigment transfer I guess .

#6 beatlejuice

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:12 AM

I would be curious as to how a little WD40 would work. It cleans a lot of unusual things.

Eric

#7 starrancher

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:45 AM

I would be curious as to how a little WD40 would work. It cleans a lot of unusual things.

Eric


I would strongly discourage this . Depending on the paint , you could suffer a complete meltdown .
If it won't buff off with a good car wax or cleaner wax , it ain't comin off .

#8 beatlejuice

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:02 AM

I would strongly discourage this . Depending on the paint , you could suffer a complete meltdown .
If it won't buff off with a good car wax or cleaner wax , it ain't comin off .



OK if you say so, but it has done no harm to the paint on my car the couple of times I have used it. Not sure what the chemical reaction is that you are referring to but I will take your word for it in case it ever comes up.

Eric

#9 Agatha

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:15 AM

I had a similar thing happen with a brand new AT 80 from a few years ago. I pulled it out of the case and was thrilled at how beautiful it was/is. Then I moved the dew shield out and to my horror, there were black stains on the tube. It was from the felt under the shield to keep it in place. The stains came right off with Windex and did not harm the beautiful white tube finish. Whew! I was elated. So I removed the shield and replaced felt pieces with white felt. I have also replaced all felt on every ring that I own. I replace ring felt often to simply cover more completely. :)

Best, Linda B.

#10 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:28 AM

I would be curious as to how a little WD40 would work. It cleans a lot of unusual things.

Eric


I would strongly discourage this . Depending on the paint , you could suffer a complete meltdown .
If it won't buff off with a good car wax or cleaner wax , it ain't comin off .


Humm..

I have been using WD-40 to clean grimy parts of some pretty nice bicycle frames for 25 years without a problem.

This what the WD-40 Website:

"What surfaces or materials are OK to use WD-40 Multi-Use Product on?

WD-40 Multi-Use Product can be used on just about everything. It is safe to use on metal, rubber, wood and plastic. It can also be applied to painted metal surfaces without harming the paint. Polycarbonate and clear polystyrene plastic are among the few surfaces on which to avoid using a petroleum-based product like WD-40 Multi-Use Product."


By the way, WD-40 also works great for cleaning pine pitch off your hands.

Jon

#11 wolfman_4_ever

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:35 AM

I use wd-40 all the time on my mount and pier that are left outside under a 365.. displaces water well, hampers rust formation, great cleaner.. but as they say.. test on an conspicuous spot first.

#12 Lane

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:00 AM

Mine is the AT 106 not the AT 106LE. And as I recall it did not come with rings I bought the ones suggested by Astronomics to fit the scope.

I have owned it for about 2 years but have never removed the rings before so I really don't know when it happened or how long it took to happen.

Anyway I suspect it was just some cheap dye used in the felt and I would hope not to many other rings use that particular felt.

#13 Goodchild

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

You could also try white vinegar.

#14 rdandrea

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

You could also try white vinegar.


Or a paper towel dipped in bleach on an inconspicuous part of the stain. Just dab, no rubbing.

#15 AstroGabe

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

I had the same problem with my old AT106. It appeared after an especially dewy night. Tried as I might, couldn't get it removed. Didn't try wd40 though...

Gabe

#16 GeneT

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

I would strongly discourage this . Depending on the paint , you could suffer a complete meltdown .
If it won't buff off with a good car wax or cleaner wax , it ain't comin off .



OK if you say so, but it has done no harm to the paint on my car the couple of times I have used it. Not sure what the chemical reaction is that you are referring to but I will take your word for it in case it ever comes up. Eric


OK--try it and let us know. :grin:

#17 Lane

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:50 PM

I am not touching mine, Polish did not remove it so I know this dye has gone deep into the paint, I am just leaving it alone now. It is not very noticeable anyway, and with the rings attached as they always are then it is not seen at all. I would never sell this scope anyway so it doesn't matter to me, but I know many of you sell and buy scopes like they are trading cards and I wanted you to be aware of this issue.

#18 BlueGrass

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Lane,
One remedy I've found for grape stains on the counter, coffee stains around the sink, is 409. I've used it to clean a number of things over the years. I use a warm soapy cloth afterwards if I'm concerned with leaving it on a surface followed by a wipe down with a clean, wet cloth. Never used it on OTA baked enamels though but compared to vinegar or bleach, it would seem to be a less caustic solution? Just a thought ...

#19 starrancher

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

409 is good stuff along with a variety of other all purpose cleaners , but I believe the situation at hand is a colored stain that has been obsorbed into the painted finish and is no longer a surface stain . Once this pigment is saturated deep inside the painted finish it would require digging down in to get it out . A good automotive cleaner wax will take a small bit of surface material away cleaning a stain that hasn't penetrated deep into the surface , but if this hasn't worked , anything aside from sanding the paint to the depth of the stain will be a lost cause and unless one wants to re paint the tube , the stain is there to stay .
A good Sun bleaching might work , but who knows how long that might take .
If the tube ring cover the discoloration , what difference does it make ?

#20 beatlejuice

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:55 AM

OK--try it and let us know



I would Gene but luckily I don't have any stains to remove at the moment :jump:

Eric

PS: I cant seem to get the hang of quotes inside of quotes. It gets all jumbled up when I try it.

#21 csrlice12

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:20 AM

Wrap a damp (wet, not dripping) rag soaked in bleach water around the area for awhile (hour or two anyways). Wipe down the entire tube with the rag afterwards. It should get rid of some of the stain, but it sounds likes it's penetrated into the finish itself. Good news is, you know where the rings go now.......

#22 CJK

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:34 AM

This is a disturbing thread to a newbie like myself. I have two sets of rings for my daughter's ED80 -- the Parallax ones have thick, dense, undyed felt (hooray for more of Joe's thoughtful engineering), but the Orion ones have much thinner felt that has been dyed black. After reading this, I think I will be replacing that ASAP -- even though the OTA is painted grey on this scope, I would hate for anything like this to happen.

-- Chris

#23 Starman1

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

One remedy I haven't seen mentioned is a product I've used on car paint scatches for years: "Scratch-Out". It's basically a polishing compound that will remove some paint, but if the stain is surface-deep, Scratch-Out will take it off.

Alternatively, Simi-Chrome, which is like jeweler's rouge, and is a superb polish agent. It employs a chemical tarnish remover as well. You should see what this does for brass! A heavily-corroded surface became mirror-polished.

Use with soft cloth for slow polishing, or with paper towels for faster action.

#24 Lane

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:23 PM

If the tube ring cover the discoloration , what difference does it make ?


It would only make a difference if you planned to sell your scope. A buyer would need to be informed of this and it might lower the value of the product.

#25 JS999R

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:19 AM

Fresh paint is sensitive unless allowed to cure for a prescribed time period after being baked or air dried. In a basecoat/clearcoat auto paint job if the person who is responsible for any post sanding or buffing and does it too early the results initially may look good, but the next day the telltale marks (swirls) reveal themselves, called "dye back". And when they do the clearcoat is further along in the curing process and the swirls and imperfections are difficult to remove at that time. Therefore, in a production operation there is a chance the OTA paint wasn't allowed to cure long enough before the rings were attached. The ring felt is also attached with glue, most glues are made out of solvent and felt is porous. There is also a chance the glue solvents permeated the felt with the cinching down process and made the color dye in the felt soluble. Combine the felt dye with soft clearcoat and something like this can happen. I can also see something like this happening as the OP indicated the felt may have become wet. Again, it doesn't help the felt is under a lot of pressure from the scope rings. Sometimes these things have faded away after being exposed to the elements, especially the sun's UV rays. But, that can't happen because the effected area is protected by the rings. Or, they may surprise you and just go away in time, but thats wishful thinking.

I believe we are talking about Chinese raw materials, glue, felt, paint, solvents, etc. Sometimes the odor coming off of Chinese glue is so strong we call it "rocket fuel". Good likelyhood the glue is heavy in solvent compounds that are illegal to use here. Thats unless the customer specifies exactly what products to use and using them under the right protocols. That doesn't mean the Chinese vendor will adhere to the specified products, there have been numerous cases of product switching in other industries to save money.

WD40 is a penetrating oil/solvent and it does have a tendency to draw into pores. In fact I was told a very long time ago not to use it to clean bullets because it can compromise the primer and gun power underneath it. But I don't think a dab of it on an inconspicuous location would do any harm, unless the clearcoat is *BLEEP*.

Here is an article I found that may help:
http://www.howtoclea...painted-surf...






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