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Should I Get Rid of the Telrad?

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#51 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

So I definitely need to get a new 50mm finder mount compatible with Synta shoes before I can even test out the ES finder. I'm not going to bother drilling holes in any of my scopes for the included Antares shoe. The finder mount and shoe will be sold.

I tried fitting the ES finder into one of my 50mm three-screw mounts, but the finder is too wide.

So any suggestions for a mount? I want one that will lift the ES finder relatively high off the OTA, but I don't expect anything like a Telrad riser.

I was thinking about starting a new thread just on this topic. But a new Synta-style mount is essential to my using and testing the ES finder, so I'm asking in this thread first.

Mike

#52 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:03 AM

This is one option:

ScopeStuff 50mm Finder Scope Rings

$49.00 - #FRS8 - fits Synta/Orion type finder shoes, a common finder base for many imported scopes. Inside ring diameter is 2.4".


The stalk looks like it sits fairly high off the shoe.

Here is the Synta shoe:

$22.00 - #RDPB - Orion/Synta Type Finder Mounting Shoe, 0.785" (20mm) Hole Spacing


Scope Stuff also has a Synta shoe that should fit my C6. I'll have to check the hole spacing. But no sense putting that Antares shoe on the C6.

$26.00 - #RDPS - Orion/Synta Type Finder Mounting Shoe for SCTs, Hole Spacing up to 1.5"


By the way, that #FRQB mount and shoe on the ScopeStuff webpage looks like the Antares type that I received with the ES finder.

Mike

#53 okieav8r

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:04 AM

I don't see a Telrad alone leading anyone to a dim stellar planetary, a faint galaxy in a galaxy cluster or a tiny loosely-scattered OC in the midst of a Milky Way star field. There are many objects up there that need the additional help of a printed star chart, Sky Safari, optical finder and/or a finder eyepiece to locate.

A Telrad will not do it all. It needs some help.

Mike



It's not much good without an observer, that's for sure. But I can put many a faint galaxy right in the eyepiece of my 16 inch with only the Telrad to guide me.

Jon


Yep. I do it all the time.

#54 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

Rex,

You're getting the same treatment as Jon:

So you are not using a finder eyepiece in the focuser? And you are doing all this from memory? No printed maps, goto, DSC, SkySafari or SkyTools?

Very impressive!

:roflmao:
Mike

#55 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

Here is another 50mm finder mount. It looks sturdier and maybe higher than the one from ScopeStuff. But at $116, it's over twice as expensive. From the look of it, I'm not sure if it's compatible with the standard Synta shoe, though the description does say "fits Vixen Style, Synta and Celestron Dovetails."

Baader Planetarium Multipurpose Quick Release Finder Bracket

Mike

#56 Doug Culbertson

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

Don,

Telrads might be nice, but they can't do it all.

:grin:
Mike


Well they won't pour out the Rebel Yell at the end of the run, but under dark skies, a Telrad can get you bang on the money everytime. ;)


If mine gave out a Rebel Yell, I'd definitely get rid of it! :poke: I can't even stand those folks who like to play a guitar or chat loudly while I'm at the telescope. :grin:


Mike,

Rebel Yell is a bourbon, not an actual yell. :ohgeeze: :lol:

Back to the Telrad discussion...

#57 csa/montana

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

A Telrad will not do it all. It needs some help.



That's why I always use Telrad charts. With this combination, finding objects is easy, & a lot of fun.

Another nice thing about the Telrad is the battery usage. I bought mine in 1995; and recently changed the batteries for the first time; not that the originals were dead, simply because I had extra batteries, & thought "what the heck". :lol: It's on from the moment I start observing, & is the last thing I turn off! The Telrad sits in my observatory year around, in heat & cold.

#58 DaveJ

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

Rebel Yell is a bourbon, not an actual yell. :ohgeeze: :lol:


Actually, before it was a bourbon, it was an actual yell. Take a look here.

#59 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

You can tell I'm strictly beer and wine. But if the Telrad poured out Rebel Yell, I might just keep it.

:grin:
Mike

#60 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:46 AM

A Telrad will not do it all. It needs some help.



That's why I always use Telrad charts. With this combination, finding objects is easy, & a lot of fun.


But I never found those Telrad charts much good for the smaller, dimmer and more difficult to star-hop objects. I usually need to supplement them with deeper star charts or Sky Safari. That's why I sold all my Telrad charts.

Mike

#61 csa/montana

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:03 AM

There are many Telrad charts, many very detailed. I have the Messier bound Telrad charts, and don't use them at all, because they aren't detailed enough. The programs I use "MegaStars" & CdC, also can put the Telrad circle on your charts to print out. This can be detailed as much as you wish.

#62 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:09 AM

Yes, Sky Safari has the option to display the Telrad rings, as well as various size FOV rings. But I seldom set Sky Safari to show any of these rings when I'm star hopping. For me, they mostly get in the way. I just get a feel for the image scale, look for asterisms and such, and start hopping.

Mike

#63 ckwastro

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:23 AM

It's on from the moment I start observing, & is the last thing I turn off!


Same here Carol. I think it's all in what we get used to using.

I will agree that the Telrad is not perfect. Its footprint is larger than necessary and it is close to the scope without a riser. However I prefer it over the Rigel as it's much easier to sight. I use a Rigel on my smaller scopes because of the weight, but even after several years of using the Rigel I still have to hunt for the reticle, while I have no problems with the Telrad. I also prefer the extra circle on the Telrad.

While some say they find it useless for star-hopping, I've found it to be very easy and invaluable for that task, especially when I can combine its use with an optical finder. Bottom line is there is no right or wrong answer here; we all use what works best for us.

#64 Starman1

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

Here is another 50mm finder mount. It looks sturdier and maybe higher than the one from ScopeStuff. But at $116, it's over twice as expensive. From the look of it, I'm not sure if it's compatible with the standard Synta shoe, though the description does say "fits Vixen Style, Synta and Celestron Dovetails."

Baader Planetarium Multipurpose Quick Release Finder Bracket

Mike


That looks nice! Lumicon offers a nice CNC-machined 50mm finder bracket, but I don't know if the new company has them in stock or not. A call would find out.

By the way, my previous reference to a flat focuser board was referring to the way finders are usually mounted on wooden truss-tubed dob UTAs. There is a thin, flat, wooden strip to which the finder is mounted. The focuser is mounted to a similar board only wider, usually.

By the way, how do you get such a long life from illuminator batteries? Even at a low setting, I've never had an illuminator last an entire night if left on. Those SR44 batteries seem to last maybe 6 hours, tops. Batteries in the Telrad last years! I've even accidentally left the Telrad turned on for an entire month a few times and I'm still on the same batteries.

#65 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:55 AM

The Baader mount looks nice, but I don't know if it's worth $116 vs the ScopeStuff mount for $49. $116 is might pricey for a 50mm finder mount. I'm not even sure it's any taller than the ScopeStuff one. I don't like throwing more money at something in hopes that it's a better item. That rationale doesn't always work.

I notice, though, that the Synta and SCT finder shoes from ScopeStuff are somewhat overpriced. I'd get a better deal from Agena or HPS.

Mike

#66 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:01 AM

Don,

By the way, how do you get such a long life from illuminator batteries? Even at a low setting, I've never had an illuminator last an entire night if left on. Those SR44 batteries seem to last maybe 6 hours, tops. Batteries in the Telrad last years! I've even accidentally left the Telrad turned on for an entire month a few times and I'm still on the same batteries.


AFAIK, those are the batteries I'm using. I turn the reticle on for my Orion 20mm illuminated eyepiece in the 15x70 and leave it on for five or six hours. I seldom have to change it, maybe only once or twice a year. I do keep it on low, though. I don't remember them ever burning out over the course of one night. That sounds more like a GLP!

Mike

#67 csa/montana

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:13 AM

Bottom line is there is no right or wrong answer here; we all use what works best for us.



Kerry, exactly right! :bow:

#68 Mike B

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:50 AM

That sounds more like a GLP!



Oh really? My GLP, running a single CR123A, has been on the same battery for a lonnnnng time. But it's use is intermittent, at most.

YMOV ;)

#69 okieav8r

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:28 PM

Rex,

You're getting the same treatment as Jon:

So you are not using a finder eyepiece in the focuser? And you are doing all this from memory? No printed maps, goto, DSC, SkySafari or SkyTools?

Very impressive!

:roflmao:
Mike


Sure, I do a lot of it from memory. After all, I've been doing astronomy for over 30 years, so I've had plenty of time to get a lot targets down to memory. Not all of all of them mind you, nor even a majority, but a lot. Yes, I do use a finder eyepiece, but as often as not, the target is in the field of view when I look, and if it isn't, a nudge usually gets it there. I also use charts and Skytools3 for those objects that I haven't developed a good memory for and to plan/manage the evenings agenda.

For the ones I'm not that familiar with, I feel like I'm pretty good at looking at a chart, then mentally projecting that picture over to the Telrad to find the target. Anyhow, I just haven't felt a need to mount a RACI finder on my telescope. I do own one though. It's gathering dust in a closet.

#70 HenryV1598

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:33 PM

I fully acknowledge that Telrad's aren't perfect. However, some of us get a lot of use from them. I have an 8" SCT. I piggyback an 80mm Refractor (its the Vernonscope/University Optics 11x80mm). I use that more for guiding and imaging, but if I happen to need a finder, it works. I have a 50mm right-angle finder, but I haven't bothered to actually attach it in ages. I mostly use the Telrad and the scope itself. The telrad helps me hit the alignment stars for my GoTo fast, and if not using GoTo, gets me in the general vicinity of the object I'm looking for. Usually getting it pretty close to the view through my 40mm eyepiece.

As with most things, I think it comes down to personal preference. Pot-a-to/pot-ah-to. If it helps you observe, then use it. If not, ditch it. If you don't want yours, feel free to send it to me! ;-)

#71 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

That sounds more like a GLP!



Oh really? My GLP, running a single CR123A, has been on the same battery for a lonnnnng time. But it's use is intermittent, at most.

YMOV ;)


... in California!

:grin:
Mike

#72 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

Yes, Sky Safari has the option to display the Telrad rings, as well as various size FOV rings. But I seldom set Sky Safari to show any of these rings when I'm star hopping. For me, they mostly get in the way. I just get a feel for the image scale, look for asterisms and such, and start hopping.

Mike


Mike:

You have convinced me you should get rid of your Telrad.

The Telrad is a powerful tool, particularly if used with a program like Sky Safari which can show the Telrad circles against the starfield. But you do not inclined towards using it the way it was meant to be used so yeah, it only takes up space on your scope.

I am not parting with mine however.

Jon

#73 csa/montana

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

Yes, Sky Safari has the option to display the Telrad rings, as well as various size FOV rings. But I seldom set Sky Safari to show any of these rings when I'm star hopping. For me, they mostly get in the way. I just get a feel for the image scale, look for asterisms and such, and start hopping.

Mike


Mike:

You have convinced me you should get rid of your Telrad.

The Telrad is a powerful tool, particularly if used with a program like Sky Safari which can show the Telrad circles against the starfield. But you do not inclined towards using it the way it was meant to be used so yeah, it only takes up space on your scope.

I am not parting with mine however.

Jon


Agreed, and I'm also never parting with mine, either! :grin:

#74 Sarkikos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:21 PM

Jon,

I'm not sure that all the ways that the Telrad is used by observers agree with how it was "meant to be used," whatever that means. But does that matter? However I or anyone else use it is up to us.

IME & IMO, once I'm at a star or asterism from which I can star hop, the Telrad has served its purpose, no matter how anyone says that it was "meant to be used." A good optical finder does a much better job of guiding the telescope to the intended object. Obviously I can see dimmer stars and more of them in the optical finder than I could naked eye. :shrug:

I have a suspicion that many observers who speak of using a "finder eyepiece" perhaps rely too heavily on the Telrad. Instead of a "finder eyepiece," I use an optical finder. Either way, the observer goes to something else when the Telrad has done all it can. I guess the Telrad can't do it all.

Mike

#75 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

IME & IMO, once I'm at a star or asterism from which I can star hop, the Telrad has served its purpose, no matter how anyone says that it was "meant to be used." A good optical finder does a much better job of guiding the telescope to the intended object. Obviously I can see dimmer stars and more of them in the optical finder than I could naked eye.



Like I said, I think you should get rid of your Telrad.

I have both optical finders and Telrad on my 4 Dobsonians. As far as how the Telrad was "meant to be used", I can say that one can use a Telrad to do far more accurate pointing than just finding the first guide star or pointing to an asterism. You apparently are not interested taking advantage of this most important capability so yeah it makes perfect sense to part with it.

You don't need to argue about whether an Optical finder is better than a Telrad, you know what works for you, you know how you like to observe. Just get rid of it.

Myself, the Telrad is the first line, if I can't find it with the Telrad, then comes the magnifying finder...

Jon






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